This week, it’s time for some Audio Drama. Not fiction, but drama in the audio / media space. Zach and Rock discuss the recent Ozy Media scandal.

Back in September, this article was published by journalist Ben Smith. It detailed alleged fraud and other lies committed by Ozy Media. Zach and Rock use this story as a jumping off point to discuss SquadCast’s reputation, how they see themselves, how they want to be seen, and what they’ll strive for as the company continues to grow.

Extras:

Our podcast stack

  • ATR 2100 Mics
  • Apple AirPods Max Headphones
  • Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 Audio Interfaces
  • Adobe Audition
  • Buzzsprout

Episode Transcriptions

Krystal Proffitt: [00:00:00] Well, hey there, listener, before we get into this week’s episode of Between Two Mics, we want to tell you about another show that you’ll love. And it’s recorded on SquadCast. Hi, I’m Krystal Proffit and I’m the host of the Proffitt Podcast. It’s a show helping podcasters start launch and market their own podcast. You can find it at Krystal Proffitt dot com. That’s Krystal with the K proffitt with two f’s and two T’s, dot com, and I would love for you to check it out. All right, let’s get into this week’s episode of Between Two Mics. [00:00:41][40.7]

Zach Moreno: [00:00:46] Welcome to Between Two Mics, the podcast that brings you remote recording resources from SquadCast dot FM. [00:00:52][6.5]

Rock Felder: [00:00:54] I’m Rock Felder, co-founder and CFO of SquadCast, [00:00:56][2.3]

Zach Moreno: [00:00:58] And I’m Zach Moreno, co-founder and CEO. [00:01:00][2.0]

Rock Felder: [00:01:01] On Between Two Mics, we bring you interviews with podcasters, experts in the field of remote recording. We discuss current events in podcasting and so much more. [00:01:10][8.5]

Zach Moreno: [00:01:11] Twice a month, you’ll hear a founders episode that’s just the two of us chatting about all things remote recording updates to SquadCast, what we’re up to and what we’re listening to. [00:01:22][10.9]

Rock Felder: [00:01:23] The other two weeks of the month we’ll bring you interview episodes. Zach and I will sit down with experts in the podcast space to discuss their companies, their podcasts, their thoughts on podcasting, creating content and more. [00:01:35][12.2]

Zach Moreno: [00:01:36] The most exciting part? We’re recording all of this on SquadCast, the best place to record remote audio and video interviews in studio quality. [00:01:45][9.2]

Rock Felder: [00:01:46] So let’s get Between Two Mics. [00:01:49][2.7]

[00:01:50] Hey, listener! Welcome back to Between Two Mics. This is a founder’s episode where Zach and I chat about all sorts of topics related to podcasting, SquadCast and whatever else is on our minds. In this episode, Zach and I talk about the juicy New York Times story on Ozy media. Ozy Media is an entertainment and media company that allegedly lied for years to close deals and attract talent. This was such a fascinating story to us that made us both reflect on our character, reputation and integrity as founders and for our company, SquadCast. So thanks for listening. We hope you enjoy. [00:02:27][36.3]

Zach Moreno: [00:02:30] Hi, Rock. What’s the story with Ozy media? [00:02:32][2.2]

Rock Felder: [00:02:33] Well, starting it off, right, just hot fire from the beginning, huh Zach. [00:02:36][3.4]

Zach Moreno: [00:02:38] It’s a long story. There’s a lot to cover here, so. [00:02:40][2.0]

Rock Felder: [00:02:41] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was talking to you about this, and that’s why we wanted to record our thoughts on SquadCast here and for our founders episode. I mean, it’s a juicy story, and it’s really interesting. What happened? Unbelievable in some, in some ways, but it got me just thinking about the way we are as leaders, the way we run our company, the way that we like our reputation and the way we carry ourselves and stuff like that. But for those who don’t know, Ozy media is a new media type of company, you know, through YouTube and podcasting content specifically aimed at Gen Z and millennials. So getting that highly desired young demographic producing content for them, essentially their leadership, allegedly. But it was reported by a highly regarded New York Times journalist, Ben Smith. He published this amazing story where apparently one of the executives at Ozy media was impersonating a YouTube executive in an effort to get fundraising or investment from from Goldman Sachs. It was like 40 million bucks or something like that, and there’s some, some details in the story that kind of, I suppose, send clues of like, you know, signs that there was there was something going on here. And sooner or later, it sounds like YouTube or Goldman Sachs. I don’t know who exactly started to feel like, OK, this is probably they eventually got in contact with each other, realize that this was being fabricated and then actually got the the FBI involved. So then there’s like a bunch of fallout happening with this Ozy media company, which is just unbelievable. Like, what did you think when I shared that article with you? [00:04:16][95.2]

Zach Moreno: [00:04:17] That something could get this far? You know, it feels kind of like Theranos or Fyre Festival or something like that. Definitely some level of fraud going on here. Yeah. With big names like like Goldman Sachs and New York Times reporting on it, the level of guess that the founder Carlos Watson was kind of doing in his business and what people who are part of his organization, I should say, were doing in order to kind of get these guests on their show and what they were kind of telling people about the these opportunities to be on, you know, the Carlos Carlos Watson show and that’s part of A&E and and ended up being on YouTube, right? So yeah, when when big money like that gets involved, the FBI will get involved. And it’s crazy that something like this, you know, what happened happened in podcasting. You know, this was a massive company that also what was surprising to me is, is that, you know, this person, Carlos Watson, that a lot of reporters are pointing these articles at does seem to have a track record of integrity. That’s what was surprising to me. The the more I dug deep into this was, it’s not necessarily as cut and dry as like, you know, the stories that were written about the podcast Hype House and our friend, you know, Peter Vincer, you know. [00:05:31][73.8]

Rock Felder: [00:05:31] God, you’ve got a juicy ear for podcast gossip story. Wow. [00:05:35][3.5]

Zach Moreno: [00:05:36] We should do an episode on that. You know, you look into a story like that like Peter Vincer and it’s like, OK, that the shoe kind of fits the background and like, there’s a pattern of behavior here. [00:05:44][8.5]

Rock Felder: [00:05:45] He named his company notorious, I guess. He ain’t shy. [00:05:48][2.5]

Zach Moreno: [00:05:50] That’s a great name. But yeah, not not my choice. [00:05:52][2.6]

Rock Felder: [00:05:53] The shoe fits. [00:05:54][0.4]

Zach Moreno: [00:05:54] Yes. Yeah. But Carlos Watson previously had worked at Goldman Sachs, has an Emmy, has done major projects in TV and across genres. And that’s what was a bit confusing here to me. And it it seems like at first they were like, We’re going to shut it down, right? The Ozy media is closing its doors and looks like a reportedly yes, 75 full time employees are out of a job because of that. So that’s heavy. But then you shared with me that they’re having their Lazarus moment, right? I think is what I saw in one of the YouTube videos researching for this, that that they’re not shutting down, they’re coming back, they’re switching it up. Yeah, just the story keeps unfolding, and. [00:06:37][42.4]

Rock Felder: [00:06:37] And here’s why it’s interesting to me. And what got me thinking is because, you know, being in business, you are in competition and there are different ways to compete, right? And I think that’s what makes it so interesting and fun and exciting, and I’m actually excited to be a part of that. Even though, you know, competition can be, you know, maybe scary or threatening to some degree. But like, it just got me thinking about how, like, how do we compete? And in some ways, like I think Jean, our lead software engineer coined this term on how we’re constantly playing on hard mode, either because we aren’t venture funded or but also I just think like the way that we behave and carry ourselves like almost none of our I don’t know what the word is, but like in marketing, like there’s earned content, there’s paid content. Like I would say most of what SquadCast has accomplished, like we haven’t paid a lot. It’s mostly been like earned again on organic. Yeah, organic. I don’t want to sound entitled, but just trying to paint a picture of our strategy versus others. And then on top of that, there’s also like we just were very careful with our messaging and what we say and really take our reputation seriously, really take words that come from our mouth like we mean what we say and we follow through with it with action, and I tend to default more to action than anything else. If anything, I’ve looked at looked at some of the ways that we are with our our communication and think it’s an area that we’re going to need to continue to grow in because in some ways we don’t take enough credit for a lot of the things that we’ve done or aren’t the best at communicating why squad cast is, you know, so important for a podcaster and the guest. I is so many things where, you know, you know, people have told us, like, you guys are like, too nice, too humble and stuff like that. Like, That’s a problem. Yeah. So that’s that’s just what got me thinking. [00:08:29][111.6]

Zach Moreno: [00:08:29] That’s a feature. [00:08:29][0.2]

Rock Felder: [00:08:30] I would like to think so. But then, you know, there are the there’s also the whole if you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying kind of thing, which to some degree I get or at least like pushing it up to the line. But then you got stories like this and it’s just like, you know, I’m not going to name names, but I’m pretty sure we’re competing with people that see things the way our boy, Carlos Watson does not necessarily like like you and I were to some degree. It’s almost like a negative of us. Like, sometimes I feel like I’m too much of a choirboy and this is the only thing in my life. I feel like that with, yeah, and I don’t want to. I just, I don’t know. But anyways, I know I ranted there for a second. But like, you know, how do you what do you think about that reputation, the way we carry ourselves, the way we compete? All that stuff. [00:09:12][41.5]

Zach Moreno: [00:09:12] Oh, word up. I think action is the strongest form of communication. The actions we’ve taken, you know, there’s a pattern of integrity that I think, you know, speaks to the reputation that we’re proud to have earned and delivering on what we say that our product does. And being specific about what it doesn’t do and very clear about those things, I think also are meaningful to to our customers. You know, the creators that we serve. But, you know, to come back to what you said, like, what’s the line we’re talking about? What what is the line in this case that seemingly people on the internet think that Carlos Watson has crossed? And that’s the difference between organic and paid traffic or views or likes? Or pick your metric, right? And and yeah, that you can, apparently. I think to quote one of the journalists that was was covering this, this this story, there was effectively an arbitrage going on where, you know, they were getting investor dollars to or I should say, you know, advertising dollars to run these campaigns. And then they were paying for the traffic to target at the at their own campaign and then charging this premium for the advertisement relative to what they were paying to get the traffic. That’s that’s some sort of arbitrage, is what the journalist was saying. So while that is fascinating, you know, and the way apparently Carlos Watson put it to paraphrase is that, you know, they saw it as like making sure that their content got delivered to the audience, that they wanted to get their content in front of a specific audience. So they paid for that. But that’s not typically what we think of when we hear these people, you know, like, Oh, I have an Emmy. And you know, I have all these, this this huge media company and I have all these guests on it. You’re paying for that check mark. You’re paying for those likes you’re paying for. That’s I think, the line that we’re talking about to be more specific in comparison to organic having actually earned those views because your content is valuable because your service is valuable, because you’re delivering on on what you say you are. And this really just kind of cuts to the core of who these people are, you know, who who we are as people and as founders in this case and in this conversation. So yeah, we feel very strongly about our reputation and and really having our actions match our words. I think it’s just kind of how I think about it. [00:11:32][140.4]

Rock Felder: [00:11:33] Right, and it’s not like we’re not opposed to paying for services and goods and good work and great software. I mean, that’s why we charge what we charge at SquadCast, because we think that your quality is worth it. Your cut, your listeners and viewers experience is worth that price. But you know, paying for a larger email list or more followers on Twitter or more listeners on your podcast. When it’s all fabricated, it’s like, I don’t know, it just doesn’t sit well with me, but just to see it, how much it’s being done. I mean, this is just a public example, but you know, as we’ve started to get more and more entrenched in this game, like we’ve started to see that this is how people play it, you know, and it’s disappointing, I guess, on some level. But at the same time, it’s like, Well, hey, you know, people are going to do what they’re going to do. At the same time, and it’s it’s also very subjective. We’re talking about this line, what different people are going to draw that line differently and, yeah, it just doesn’t sit right with me because I don’t want to come across like we’re we’re cheap or, you know, don’t understand, pay to play, but there are differences to me and those do matter like just, you know, I’m not saying that all of our email list subscribers or our followers on, we probably have some bots following us, but we didn’t pay… [00:12:46][73.0]

Zach Moreno: [00:12:47] Everybody does. Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah, I wish we didn’t. Yeah, it really, really, really becomes a problem when you start raising $40 million from an institution like Goldman Sachs, and you’re absolutely those numbers that were maybe started out as like stretching the truth or a white lie to bridge you know, the story from here to there compound over time and in meetings years later, when you’re raising money, those statements come to bear and people do due diligence, right? So calling the source in this case, YouTube, right? Like, Hey, is this a YouTube original? In this case, because minor detail it was started out as an A&E special that they were going to do an A&E program, and then they fell back to YouTube and they called it a YouTube original in caps, which is something that has actually produced by YouTube and Google that separate from content that is uploaded to YouTube. Right. So minor detail. But in this case, Goldman Sachs did due diligence, contacted the source of the day to YouTube and quickly found that yes, this person was being imitated and numbers were not adding up. So yeah, the FBI gets involved. And that’s really where it’s like, OK, you could see. I just I just wanted that check mark. You know, I wanted I wanted that many people to be at my event or something like that. So right, you know, I think it really is like, what’s real, you know, and we tend to try to be real. [00:14:12][85.6]

Rock Felder: [00:14:13] Well, you know, in some way I can relate to these folks and anyone that feels that pressure and is just going to do whatever they can to get the results that they want. Because like, we’re still a self-funded bootstrap company. But we talked to investors. We’ve been talking to investors all the time. [00:14:28][15.3]

Zach Moreno: [00:14:29] We are investors. [00:14:29][0.9]

Rock Felder: [00:14:30] Well, thank you. But I’m just saying we talk to these people because we’re we’re always looking for advice, right? Always looking for for ideas on how we can continue to scale this, this company and grow as as as leaders and founders. And you know, when we talk to these people like, you know, at times you and I debrief where, you know, some of these people, it’s like they want us to tell them this other story that we don’t believe in or we don’t think is right. I mean, what’s the I don’t want to take it from you, but you’ve used this analogy of them wanting us to sell them on a blockbuster. But we got this really dope indie film that’s going to hit. I mean, look at, you know, the latest Netflix series that comes out that’s, you know, that came out of nowhere is generally like, not a blockbuster. It comes out of nowhere like it’s, you know, independent stuff. And to think that that’s like not good enough that that that that’s the only kind of movie that they want to produce is a blockbuster. Anyways, I butchered it. You said it. So. [00:15:23][52.7]

Zach Moreno: [00:15:24] Yeah, fiction versus nonfiction, you know, like, it’s easy to sell wolf tickets, man. Like, you know, those aren’t right. Those aren’t the kind of stories where we’re into telling. But yeah, meanwhile. [00:15:34][10.0]

Rock Felder: [00:15:34] So we get that pressure right. Like we feel we felt that pressure before. And but at the same time, we’re like, we’re not going to do that, though, like, that’s that’s B.S.. [00:15:42][7.5]

Zach Moreno: [00:15:43] Yeah, it’s interesting because people talk about alignment, right? And to me, this is how you get out of alignment with reality, is you start doing things like this, you know, and saying that it’s real. I’m actually about alignment. I’m about that life. [00:15:55][12.5]

Rock Felder: [00:15:57] You got to be. I mean, that’s how these relationships get terrible. And then you also got millions upon millions of dollars on the line as well. Like, that’s I like to sleep at night. [00:16:06][9.2]

Krystal Proffitt: [00:16:07] Hi, I’m Krystal Proffitt, host of The Proffitt podcast recorded on SquadCast. We’re going to take a quick break, but we’ll be right back with more from Between Two Mics. [00:16:18][11.0]

Rock Felder: [00:16:20] Hey, listener! A quick note to let you know about the latest and greatest from SquadCast. We recently launched SquadCast version four point nine and it’s got some really great new features we want to make sure you know about. So here’s a few of them. You can now hide your own camera from view. So if you’re chatting with an interviewee and you don’t want to stare at your own face, that’s now possible. This was a very popular suggestion from the community, most notably during Jordan Harbinger’s interview with Anderson Cooper. That’s right, the silver fox himself. Also, we are now integrated with podcast host Captivate. So if you use them to host your show, there are some great new ways to schedule SquadCast sessions from your Captivate dashboard. Big shout out to Mark in the Captivate team for making this part of their amazing release announcement. We’ve also got some more Zapier integrations. We also introduced an auto rendering for audio and video files, so that will save you a click and the hassle of having to nudge the rendering yourself, and a whole lot more. You can discover v 4.9 by logging into your SquadCast account. As always, let us know what you think, and there will be more updates coming soon from us and the rest of the SquadCast engineering team. All right, let’s get back to the show. [00:17:34][74.1]

Zach Moreno: [00:17:37] It’s a far out story, like if you’re listening to this, do some searching around because there’s some interesting interviews with Carlos Watson, and he’s a really articulate person and has a ton of content and highest level of production, and it’s interesting because he’s being so open about this situation. So that’s where I kind of wonder is like, is this a team problem? And he just was kind of removed from the situation and people kind of went too far and astray, which is it’s still a different it’s a problem. It’s just a different problem. But yeah. [00:18:05][27.9]

Rock Felder: [00:18:05] They created this controversy. And now we’re all talking about it. [00:18:08][2.7]

Zach Moreno: [00:18:11] Exactly. Yeah, that’s a that’s a possibility, you know? I think off the record before we started recording, you know, that controversy is, you know, I wonder how many views Carlos Watson show has now that this is a thing, you know, people, people doing research on it, but the integrity that we operate with, you know, I’m really proud of that and, you know, upholding our reputation. So when we say we’re going to do things, we do them, and that might take some time because, you know, innovating and building new technology isn’t a straight path forward, but we pursue it nonetheless. And I think sticking to that has been integral, critical for us in our journey. [00:18:47][36.2]

Rock Felder: [00:18:47] So yeah, that’s why the purpose of what I wanted to talk to you about to me is not to. I mean, yes, it’s a wild story and an unbelievable but at the same time, like you said, there’s these people are probably they have some type of talent. They were able to get in these get in those type of conversations, get connections with those type of people like that’s not easy. This stuff is none of this stuff is easy just to start a company, whether it is complete B.S. or not. It’s just, you know, when you’re just in the competition, in the game, the way that we are and playing it, the way that we are, it’s just like, unbelievable that we’re among all these that, you know, there’s there’s different ways to play it, I suppose. And yeah, even though there are no one like that. She’s not dumb. You know, it’s just it’s just unbelievable what they did. But what makes it so strange, right? [00:19:34][46.6]

Zach Moreno: [00:19:34] It’s the background of all three of these people on paper. They’re amazing founders, incredible like Carlos Watson, Harvard, Stanford, MSNBC and Goldman Sachs. Elizabeth Holmes dropped out of Stanford. Billy McFarland was the visionary founder behind Magny-Cours, right? This this like fintech company, credit cards and rewards and stuff, right? So all of these people have backgrounds, you know, and that’s where MSNBC, like, they were very careful to say, like, now this, this person has decorated, you know, success in these in these verticals. So. But why did this happen? And yeah, why do you need to buy all those views and stuff like that? Is it facade that just kept going? Or, you know, what is it? But what we focus on? And instead of trying to find people to to buy views or check marks or metrics or any of those things is it’s like, you know, focusing on focusing on our customers and how we how we serve and help them. That’s always going to be a winning recipe, just actually helping people. I like hard mode. I think we’re learning more. I think we’re better for it. I think, you know, the connections and you know, it’s more rewarding that way. I think it’s deeper. [00:20:44][70.0]

Rock Felder: [00:20:45] Yeah, I agree. I feel great about it and don’t want it any other way. And I’m just glad that like I couldn’t imagine. Imagine if you know you were like you, but then I was like, I’m Carlos Watson and I’m trying to know what to impersonate you, Zach. [00:20:56][11.6]

Zach Moreno: [00:20:57] That would be exhausting. [00:20:57][0.1]

Rock Felder: [00:20:59] Thanks for being easy to work with. [00:21:00][1.0]

Zach Moreno: [00:21:00] One thing that people don’t talk about enough is when you start having layers of different sets of facts. Work will be generous and say you have to keep track of all the the different sets of facts. This is exhausting. [00:21:12][11.8]

Rock Felder: [00:21:14] That’s why I don’t do it like I wasn’t again, I am no choirboy. I just realize it is a difficult way to live. [00:21:20][6.6]

Zach Moreno: [00:21:21] Like hearing these stories about Theranos or Carlos Watson or, yeah, Billy McFarland is just like, how did they keep track of who knew what when? And that seems ridiculous. And yeah, to the point of raising $40 million over it and being investigated by the Fed is crazy. [00:21:38][17.5]

Rock Felder: [00:21:39] I don’t think they achieved it, but they tried. [00:21:41][2.7]

Zach Moreno: [00:21:42] Well, that’s where I was like, OK, good due diligence actually worked in this case. But that’s what’s crazy to me about Theranos and and Fyre was that where was the due diligence? That’s what I want to watch a whole documentary about the lack of due diligence. I soapbox here. My apologies, but you know, there is absolutely responsibility on those investors for not doing the due diligence that is absolutely part of process. So. [00:22:04][22.3]

Rock Felder: [00:22:05] Right, right. And from what I’ve heard, like watching other YouTube breakdowns on on Ozy media and stuff like they were like, you could just look at their YouTube channels, see their subscribers, see the comments, go on some other websites like, you know, spend an hour looking at their obvious media presence and it’s like, this is not a multi media conglomerate the way that it’s been. It just off those metrics unless there’s something else going on. But if you’re, you know, a lot of this information is relatively easy, easy to find. So the fact that they did. Get this far. [00:22:37][32.1]

Zach Moreno: [00:22:37] I’m glad due diligence won out here in Goldman Sachs process, so in the end, that’s that’s that’s upside to this story compared to the others. But yeah, I think the truth eventually comes forward. I mean, I guess the other one, you know, now that I’m thinking about it is like Nikola. [00:22:53][15.6]

Rock Felder: [00:22:54] Oh, you know, that just seems so obvious to me. I don’t know why. I mean, the biggest B.S. sniffer, I would say. But to me, I’m just like, OK, you name yourself like the first name of the last name of the guy who’s named after this car company, Tesla. But you say you’re nothing like it, but you actually are exactly like, I don’t know. It was just so easy. It is so easy to read through, whereas I feel like some of these people are a little bit more tricky to to read. [00:23:22][28.0]

Zach Moreno: [00:23:22] Oh yeah, just looking at the amount of speaking because Elizabeth Holmes, like she would talk, right? She would go and speak. [00:23:30][7.7]

Rock Felder: [00:23:31] She was going on the whole Steve Jobs route. [00:23:32][1.4]

Zach Moreno: [00:23:33] Abso fucking lutely. And she is a great speaker. She is moving because I remember watching these presentations before, right before the story broke and all this stuff. They were incredible. They were amazing. This is going to revolutionize like everything, and I thought it was a great idea, you know, and that she was moving. But I’m not an investor, right? I’m not going to do due diligence on this. I just see a young college kid looking at a tech founder who’s, you know, trying to change the world in a big way. If they could have pulled it off, it would have been amazing, but they should have just told people, Hey, we can’t do this. We thought we could. We tried. You know, you got to be allowed to fail. That’s one of the cornerstones, right in Silicon Valley. It seems like for some of these people, like they decided failure was not an option. It does seem there is a pattern in the valley of people being able to fail and try again and still get investment, whereas I’ve heard that’s not as true in other places. [00:24:30][57.4]

Rock Felder: [00:24:31] Yeah, I mean, I do. I do think that it is a more forgiving environment than than other places. At least, you know, historically, maybe it’s different nowadays. I still think there there’s that pressure there. Like, if they’re, you know, even if you are a company from the valley and understand that this is high risk, high reward, high uncertainty, there’s still that pressure when you got hundreds of millions of dollars invested into it. Like you’re going to feel that as the investor, you’re going to feel that as the founder. And so I think it’s hard to say, Hey, this that money’s gone. [00:25:05][33.7]

Zach Moreno: [00:25:06] Yeah. Listeners ask yourself, what would you do in that situation if you were Elizabeth Holmes? Yeah, it’s it’s I’d like to think that that’s what I would do or something else would be different. It feels like it’s increasing the number of these types of situations. Do you get that sense too? Or is that maybe that’s just I’m paying more attention to it these days. [00:25:26][20.5]

Rock Felder: [00:25:26] I think. No. It’s hard to feel like anything is actually real and authentic these days. And where, like you said, there’s. It feels like there’s so much energy that needs to go into involved when you’re reading something or listening into something or watching something so much energy and effort to be made to like, OK, well, I need to fact check this or I need to see what the other side of the story is or do other levels of I don’t know about research if research is the right term, but I’ll use research. It’s easy just to default to either that’s the truth or that’s B.S.. Right. And like, I find myself defaulting more towards that. There’s some level of like fabrication here, which is unfortunate because I’m not like that. Like, I’m usually a very my default is to trust people. My default is to I am usually very gullible and I don’t like it. Like, I’m like, Why did I believe that? Like, that’s so stupid. I never believe that, but they get me, you know? So but now I’m changing, and I don’t think that’s I think it’s a product of my environment type of situation. I think it does feel like it’s getting exposed more. It feels like we have more ways to fabricate things now. You know? [00:26:32][65.3]

Zach Moreno: [00:26:33] Yeah, more venues for whistleblowers at the same time. You know, that’s that’s another element to these types of stories. [00:26:38][5.8]

Rock Felder: [00:26:40] Optimists, forever. I love it. [00:26:42][2.3]

Zach Moreno: [00:26:43] Yeah. I mean, I guess we’ll have to do another episode, maybe on on what’s gone on with Facebook. I don’t want this podcast to become about Facebook. That’s that’s absurd. We’re not going to do that to you or ourselves. [00:26:54][10.9]

Rock Felder: [00:26:56] So I don’t know if this is true, but I’ve heard people say this is the way to combat or react to bad speech is more good speech. I think that’s pretty simplistic. But in our little way of we’re talking about, Hey, this is our way in our approach to thinking about things, but we understand that there’s this other thing going on. So maybe having a dialog about it is not a bad idea. [00:27:15][19.7]

Zach Moreno: [00:27:16] Mm hmm. I like that. It’s a good place to end it. [00:27:18][2.3]

Rock Felder: [00:27:19] Thanks for hearing me out and humoring me on on going a little deeper on this juicy topic. [00:27:23][4.2]

Zach Moreno: [00:27:23] Yeah, it takes energy to discern. But look into this story for yourself. It’s fascinating. If you’re into it, there might be a podcast about there’s probably going to be a podcast just about this situation, but there’s plenty of content made by this company. So check it out. [00:27:37][13.5]

Rock Felder: [00:27:39] Thanks for tuning in to this week’s episode of Between Two Mics. [00:27:42][2.7]

Zach Moreno: [00:27:42] We hope you enjoyed our conversation. If you learned something or are we intrigued you a bit, let us know on social media. [00:27:48][5.9]

Rock Felder: [00:27:49] You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn by searching for SquadCast fm. [00:27:55][5.7]

Zach Moreno: [00:27:56] And if you want to show the podcast Some Love, you can leave us a rating or review wherever it is you’re listening right now. [00:28:02][5.5]

Rock Felder: [00:28:02] This show is put together by us, Zach in Rock. It’s mixed and produced by Vince Moreno with help from Arielle Nissenblatt. Our logo is designed by Alex Whedbee. [00:28:12][9.3]

Zach Moreno: [00:28:12] Since we’re a podcast about podcasts, we want to shout out the brands and products that we trust. We’re recording using SquadCast.fm and here’s our current stack. For recording: we’re using ATR 2100 Mics, Apple AirPods Max headphones and focusrite Scarlet 2i2 audio interfaces. [00:28:32][19.6]

Rock Felder: [00:28:33] We edit the show on Adobe Audition in our hosting site is simple cast. [00:28:37][3.4]

Zach Moreno: [00:28:38] That’s it for us this week. We’re back next week with more from between these mics. [00:28:38][0.0]

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