In this episode, Zach and Rock share what they’ve been listening to lately. It’s the podcast recommendation podcast episode of Between Two Mics!

Zach and Rock recommend:

In discussing The Drop Out, the story of Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos, Zach and Rock focus on integrity and due diligence. As Silicon Valley-based founders, the Theranos story acts as a warning of sorts. When they discuss Rework, Zach and Rock chat about the concepts / roles of founders and entrepreneurs and how they see themselves. Zach prefers “founder,” but understands that not all people in startup land are founders. Maybe “builders?” What do you prefer?


Our podcast stack:

  • ATR 2100 Mics
  • Apple AirPods Max Headphones
  • Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 Audio Interfaces
  • Adobe Audition
  • Buzzsprout

Episode Transcripts

Matt Cole: [00:00:00] Hey, there. Before we get to this week’s episode of Between Two Mics, I want to tell you about another show I think you’ll enjoy. I’m Matt Cole and I’m one of the co-hosts of Debate This. It’s a podcast about the questions in comic books and video games that no one is asking, like what color Yoshi is the best and what Pac-Man Ghost is the scariest. You can find it wherever you listen to podcasts or at debate this cast dot com. OK, let’s get to this week’s episode of the SquadCast podcast, Between Two Mics. [00:00:28][27.9]

Zach Moreno: [00:00:35] Welcome to Between Two Mics, the podcast that brings you remote recording resources from SquadCast Dot FM.[00:00:42][6.5]

Rock Felder: [00:00:43] I’m Rock Felder, co-founder and CFO of SquadCast. [00:00:46][3.2]

Zach Moreno: [00:00:47] And I’m Zach Moreno, co-founder and CEO. [00:00:49][2.2]

Rock Felder: [00:00:51] On Between Two Mics. We bring you interviews with podcasters, experts in the field of remote recording, we discuss current events in podcasting and so much more. [00:00:59][8.5]

Zach Moreno: [00:01:00] Twice a month, you’ll hear a founders episode that’s just the two of us chatting about all things remote recording updates to SquadCast, what we’re up to, and what we’re listening to. [00:01:11][10.9]

Rock Felder: [00:01:12] The other two weeks of the month, we’ll bring you interview episodes. Zach and I will sit down with experts in the podcast space to discuss their companies, their podcasts, their thoughts on podcasting, creating content, and more. [00:01:24][12.2]

Zach Moreno: [00:01:25] The most exciting part? We’re recording all of this on SquadCast, the best place to record remote audio and video interviews in studio quality. [00:01:35][9.2]

Rock Felder: [00:01:35] So let’s get Between Two Mics. [00:01:38][2.7]

Zach Moreno: [00:01:40] Welcome to another founder’s episode of Between Two Mics. We’re changing things up a bit this week, no hard-hitting podcast news, just good old-fashioned podcast recommendations and our thoughts on the act of slowing down to listen. And in other news, before we get to the episode, if you’re a SquadCaster, look out for some announcements about a scavenger hunt we’re planning for the end of the year. And we’re having a town hall for our community on November 15th, November 15th. Details will be in the show notes. OK, let’s get to those recommendations. [00:02:15][34.5]

Zach Moreno: [00:02:17] What’s up, Rock? [00:02:17][0.4]

Rock Felder: [00:02:19] Zachariah? How are you? [00:02:20][0.5]

Zach Moreno: [00:02:20] Doin great. I’m excited to talk about what we’re listening to today. [00:02:25][4.3]

Zach Moreno: [00:02:26] Yeah, it’s been a while since we’ve had these check ins, and this is where it all started. Is this passion for for podcasting its listeners, right? We wouldn’t be here without that. And so we’re big, big fans of the medium, not just as creators and, you know, creating software for creators, but also we still get the listening in every now and then. I will say, though, it’s been more challenging for me, still still trying to figure out that I groove that, that good schedule to just constantly get in the stuff that I want, but I’m getting back into it. How about you? [00:02:57][31.2]

Zach Moreno: [00:02:58] Same here. I relied heavily on the commute before we were kind of working full time on SquadCast and remote, so finding that space to listen. I do think I’ve made progress and I’ve been cultivating more of like a queue that that I’m working my my way through and enjoying quite a lot so. [00:03:15][17.2]

Zach Moreno: [00:03:16] Cultivating a queue. Look at you. [00:03:17][1.7]

Zach Moreno: [00:03:18] Some new stuff. Yeah, yeah. Well, I went through over the weekend, I went through and cleaned up a bunch of the subscriptions that I had. I kind of blew my mind. I was subscribed to a bunch of stuff that was like, sadly no longer active, and it kind of blew my mind the volume of shows that were no longer active. I mean, maybe this is just sort of my little microcosm, but I also was subscribed to a lot of stuff. So. So I basically took it down to like, OK, if I listen to this, like in the last six months, in the last year, you know, what am I excited to like, who’s doing cool stuff going forward? So yeah, I took it down from too many to still probably a bit too many. But you know, it’s cool. [00:04:04][46.6]

Zach Moreno: [00:04:06] So a little pruning. Little cultivating. [00:04:07][1.6]

Zach Moreno: [00:04:08] Yes. [00:04:08][0.0]

Rock Felder: [00:04:09] A little little little farmer over there. [00:04:10][1.7]

Zach Moreno: [00:04:12] And then I’ve also gotten sucked in and been bingeing one show in particular recently. And I I have one that I am excited to start. That is also, you know, we talked about on the SquadCast blog and customers of ours that have recorded all of their content on the SquadCast platform. So I’m excited to to start the Aftershock podcast. Arielle keeps and keeps recommending it to me, so I have that at the top of my list, but I’ve not yet started it, so we’ll kind of get that out of the way. But excited to listen to to aftershock. I mean, the cast they have and also just, you know, really proud that they recorded that quality on on our platform. [00:04:52][40.0]

Zach Moreno: [00:04:52] So what’s the one that got you sucked in and and bingeing? Sounds aggressive. [00:04:56][4.0]

Zach Moreno: [00:04:58] Yeah, it’s the the dropout on Elizabeth Holmes’s trial from the founder of Theranos and all of the fraud and deception and like crazy stories wrapped up in, you know, was why it’s meaningful for me. It’s like, I mean, it’s it’s kind of a crazy story. Regardless, I think, you know, it’s interesting, probably to most people, but I’ve been following Theranos and Elizabeth Holmes for a long time as far as I can founder that I looked up to and pre, yeah, fraud and all that stuff quite a lot. [00:05:31][33.5]

Zach Moreno: [00:05:32] The turtleneck got you. [00:05:33][1.0]

Zach Moreno: [00:05:33] Well, I mean, if they had been telling the truth or even if it was like one percent of the truth, it’s amazing what they were trying to do. Like, I think we can all agree. If you if you set aside physics and like the facts of the situation of why this isn’t possible, if it were possible, it would be incredible. So the problem is, is that it was literally incredible like it was, it was not rooted in reality or science or. And when you raise that much money and have that many investors like, there’s all these lawsuits, I think there’s a civil case now. So, yeah, season one is like leading up to the trial. And then season two is, I believe, chronicling the trial. And there’s some twists in here, too, that she’s a pretty interesting person. She’s a very smart person, right? She and her partner had a had a child before the trial started. And that kind of, oh yeah, it stirs up a bunch of questions like, is this unethical? Because she could be going away to prison for 20 years or and she’s trying to, like, get sympathy from jurors or, you know, she’s about the age where people have children, so, you know, it’s just like not everything needs to be, that’s like conspiracy thing, but like, I don’t know, there’s just so many interesting things about that story to me. And yeah, being here and in Silicon Valley and a founder myself, it’s it’s just very fascinating. And it really, you know, you and I talk about this all the time, but it seems like there’s an interesting relationship with due diligence these days and people kind of you would expect due diligence to be kind of part of a process and part of a sophisticated investor workflow. But surprisingly, shockingly, it kind of shows up in these stories like Theranos, where clearly there’s a lot of people who are even in this story who are being interviewed, who I’m like, You definitely share some of this responsibility, like the team at Walgreens who approved this partnership and rolled it out like they did. That’s negligence, in my opinion. Yes, they were being lied to, but also it’s your responsibility to protect your customers. And there’s a bunch of things in there that I just think like that shouldn’t happen. That should have stopped it right there. But it went on for like close to 15 years or something like that, which is another fascinating fact. [00:07:54][140.4]

Zach Moreno: [00:07:55] Right? Well, the HBO special has been out many of years now, right? So we’ve heard this story before you and I have talked about it. It is fascinating. Umm. [00:08:03][7.9]

Zach Moreno: [00:08:07] Yea, I think I’d get tired of it. [00:08:07][0.2]

Rock Felder: [00:08:07] What makes the podcast so interesting is that because it’s like more current with what’s going on with the trial or is there just like more information that you’re finding out? Because I know, like one of the kind of interesting and it would be awful to think of this happening to you. But like their text messages getting oh yeah, exposed to the public, both of them and her calling him like Tiger Lion, something and him, just like completely ignoring it and talking about something else. It’s just like, this is what, oh, what a fun relationship that must be. Well, what about the podcast has got you just so sucked in because this is a story that you’re you’re familiar with? [00:08:45][37.3]

Zach Moreno: [00:08:45] I mean, a lot a lot has been said about her voice and how she has, like changed her voice to sound, you know, lower and whether that’s code switching or whatever the reason for that. I think it’s interesting to hear that tape that to hear her phone some of her phone calls, to hear some of the depositions, to hear people talk about people like former Apple employees who worked on my iPhone with Steve Jobs, like talking about what it was like to work with telling these stories, what it was like to work on the Edison device with Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos, and how there were all these differences. And then just like knowing what we know about running a team and then like all the stuff that they were firing people like, it was the thing to do. Like they would get these like crazy talented people with backgrounds like Apple or whatever. And yeah, like a few weeks later, they’re fired and. Hmm. That’s very interesting. You know, so I think it’s like hearing about what it was like inside their organization. And then another piece that I hadn’t heard of was from, I believe, the the widow of their their chief science officer who committed suicide because of the work that because of the lies and because of the position that that the company was putting him in. It’s devastating. But to to hear I hadn’t heard the depth of that story that that was really eye-opening to me. And then, yeah, I’m almost to season two. So I’m not in the in the trial yet. But that’s that’s kind of the main reason why I was like, OK, cool, this will be probably some back story I wasn’t aware of. Go a little bit deeper than the documentaries in the articles that I’ve written or that I’ve read. And then and then you are going forward into the trial. Check it out if you’re interested in wild stuff and start up land. [00:10:36][110.2]

Rock Felder: [00:10:37] Kind of funny too, because our last founders episode, we were talking about a similar topic with lack of due diligence being done. [00:10:43][6.3]

Zach Moreno: [00:10:43] That’s true. [00:10:44][0.2]

Rock Felder: [00:10:46] A founder kind of, not kind of, but basically just, yeah, lying right and kind of being able to go somewhere with it. It’s it is. It’s mind blowing, but apparently that’s it’s a topic that we’re interested in.[00:10:59][13.4]

Zach Moreno: [00:11:00] There’s a line between yeah, a vision of what could be and just straight up lies. So yeah, we have to self-regulate. We have to stay mindful. We have to practice these things. All we can control is what we do. So. So that’s just one show I’m listening to. I also I’ve been I’ve listened to a few episodes of Right Now ish KQED show, which focuses on people doing interesting things in the Bay Area, some really interesting like art stuff with glassblowing and mural painting. And then my space junk habit. I still listen to Our Ludicrous Future and Main Engine Cutoff podcast to get like my space news on all the Space x Blue Origin Starship. Getting to Mars, all that stuff. You know, Artemus, Nasa. [00:11:43][43.0]

Zach Moreno: [00:11:46] We’re going to take a quick break, but we’ll be back soon with more from Between Two Mics. [00:11:51][4.9]

Rock Felder: [00:11:54] Hey, listener, a quick note to let you know about the latest and greatest from SquadCast. We recently launched SquadCast version 4.9 And it’s got some really great new features we want to make sure you know about. You can now hide your own camera from view, so if you’re chatting with an interviewee and you don’t want to stare at your own face, that’s now possible. This was a very popular suggestion from the community. Also, we are now integrated with podcast host Captivate. So if you use them to host your show, there are some great new ways to schedule SquadCast sessions from your Captivate dashboard. We’ve also got some more Zapier integrations. We also introduced an Auto Re rendering for audio and video files, so that will save you a click, and a whole lot more. You can discover the 4.9 by logging into your SquadCast account. As always, let us know what you think, and there will be more updates coming soon from us and the rest of the SquadCast engineering team. All right, let’s get back to the show. [00:12:56][62.0]

Zach Moreno: [00:12:58] So what do you got going on? What’s in your headphones? [00:13:01][2.4]

Rock Felder: [00:13:01] Yeah, well, thanks for asking. There’s all I’m always listening to like business or personal finance stuff on YouTube, but also in podcast form too. But to be honest, I’ve been pretty bored with that stuff lately. What I’ve been learning is like, I don’t know for my investment style, like my approach to things. I’m very like minimalist focus, like try to avoid the noise. So like a lot of the shows. They’re just noisy and like full of B.S., and I’m starting to kind of see that I’m kind of starting to see like these YouTubers who I came to or podcasters that I came to for certain information and like that was good information or whatever. But now I’m seeing them trying to like, keep up with the Joneses and how they’re like, developing it and evolving and stuff like that. And it’s just kind of like turning me off to a lot of that stuff. And I just think like, actually, that’s probably a good thing. It’s just disappointing because like, I have to find new, new stuff to entertain me or to watch or whatever. But like, that’s the thing is like, my style is kind of boring when it comes to investing in finance. So, you know, it is what it is. So what I’ve been listening to lately that’s been interesting for me is the Rework podcast by the founders of Base Camp and Hey, I’ve read the book rework. [00:14:15][73.5]

Zach Moreno: [00:14:16] Classic. [00:14:16][0.0]

Rock Felder: [00:14:17] Back when we first were starting SquadCast. I want to say, like 2016 2017, that was one of the books that I read during that time period. And, you know, so I was still working at a corporate job. And just like I remember chapter after chapter, just being like, Oh, everything they’re saying just hits, this is what I want. This is what I believe like. And they have a really they do a really good job of like asking these questions or turning things that like I wouldn’t even think to question. And then all of a sudden you start like, you know, they just turn things around really well. So like, for example, one of the podcast episodes I listen to recently on the Rework podcast was them talking about how they don’t like to talk about planning things or refer to things as a plan, because it’s really just all guesses that they think there’s a lot of baggage with planning where guess there’s like less baggage, or if you if you fail, oh well, it was a guess like we were wrong, whereas a plan, it’s like, Oh, we didn’t execute on this plan, we screwed up. Why didn’t we? Who, you know, who’s to blame? What are we? Are we failing type of deal? Whereas a guess, there’s like less pressure, less stuff like that. So. So stuff like that is fascinating to me. But the episode that I want to talk to you about is it’s titled Enough with Entrepreneur. [00:15:25][68.6]

Zach Moreno: [00:15:27] I think I saw this in a tweet. [00:15:27][0.3]

Rock Felder: [00:15:27] They basically like, don’t like the word entrepreneur. And so I thought they were going to take it one way where it’s pretty easy to consider yourself an entrepreneur. I mean, really, what does it mean? It’s easy to, I guess, say you’re an entrepreneur, but to me, it means something like it actually means something like it means more than just starting. It means like. [00:15:45][17.8]

Zach Moreno: [00:15:46] Cultivating. [00:15:46][0.0]

Rock Felder: [00:15:47] Surviving. [00:15:47][0.0]

Zach Moreno: [00:15:49] Yeah, there’s a lot of a lot of people selling all that. [00:15:50][1.9]

Rock Felder: [00:15:51] All that. [00:15:51][0.0]

Zach Moreno: [00:15:51] A lot of aspirations, let’s say. [00:15:53][2.0]

Rock Felder: [00:15:54] Yeah. So that’s how I was thinking it was going to go, but I was definitely wrong. They are like, No, we need to stop putting, put it on a pedestal, put entrepreneurs on a pedestal, put the word entrepreneur on a pedestal that really all you are is just a starter. If you’re a businessman, or person, you’re a starter of a business, and that’s amazing and obviously required and comes with a lot of courage and skill sets that I think are admirable. But yeah, they were like, it shouldn’t be glorified and they don’t like, apparently like to think of themselves as entrepreneurs. And the reason why I bring that up is because, like when we were starting school, I cast me and I just remember of like wanting to be an entrepreneur so bad, but like not feeling like I can consider myself one until, like, I don’t know, we actually had customers till we were actually starting to get paid, like getting a paycheck from SquadCast, like with my name from it, that that was the special moment. That’s actually the moment when I felt like, OK, I’m actually an entrepreneur now. Like this, we built this business from basically nothing. And now it’s not just paying my bills, but paying other people’s bills. Like, that’s freaking amazing, right? But maybe I did put a little too much like importance on on this word or being that having that title. Because like, now that I’m here, I’m kind of like, I kind of get what they’re saying, you know, but you need a title for this, right? What is the title? It’s maybe this. Maybe there’s a better word for it. [00:17:14][80.3]

Zach Moreno: [00:17:14] I like founders, but not everybody in business is a founder. So I get that, you know, entrepreneurs a bit broad. Yeah, there. Yeah, it’s not a term that that I like. I don’t think I ever refer to myself. Yeah, I don’t think I’ve ever really referred to myself as definitely not out loud. I don’t think in writing, maybe other people have written it about me, but I talk about building stuff starting. Yeah, I think of it as more as building rather than starting like you. Just if you’re going to build something, you have to start somewhere, right? So it’s just like, OK, I think there’s there’s too much like glory given to like that first step. I mean, think about how many people take a first step and don’t do it the second, third or whatever, and we don’t talk to those people like, Oh, wow, that’s amazing. You started something new that didn’t exist. And. It’s like the difference is that you keep going. You treat it as a craft, as a practice and seek to get better at it. [00:18:04][50.3]

Rock Felder: [00:18:05] Yeah, I don’t know. I just think it was interesting. It was an interesting conversation. It’s just funny because they’re like, sometimes I just think that they say these things just to be, I don’t know, salacious, provocative, whatever. But it does get me thinking because I don’t know. I do think that its words are important, and I definitely fell into like glamorizing and glorifying this title. And now that, yeah, we’re being referred to as this, we oh, we started this business and it’s it’s it’s going. So I think we could we are justified in calling ourselves that. But yeah, there is this like also the negative connotation with it and stuff too. [00:18:41][36.3]

Zach Moreno: [00:18:42] I think especially because there’s people like Elizabeth Holmes dragging it through the mud. [00:18:44][2.9]

Rock Felder: [00:18:45] So what do you like about founder versus entrepreneur? Because I like founder, because to me, founder is like, It really doesn’t matter what job it is, it is a department. [00:18:54][8.8]

Zach Moreno: [00:18:54] Exactly. [00:18:54][0.0]

Rock Felder: [00:18:55] It’s a job to me. And that’s what I love about it is no matter what there is like, that’s at the end of the day is my responsibility. Sure, we have people helping us that are in charge of support, but at the end of the day, like, we gotta figure that out. [00:19:06][11.0]

Zach Moreno: [00:19:07] Yeah, there’s no job description. Not necessarily. It’s just exactly what are we trying to do? How do we do it? You know, it’s it’s very it’s very simple. [00:19:14][7.1]

Rock Felder: [00:19:14] For better or for worse. [00:19:15][0.5]

Zach Moreno: [00:19:16] No doubt. I don’t know. I’m kind of skeptical of anybody who, like, gives themselves a bunch of titles. And we’ve even talked about this in the past with start ups, right? Like, I have no formal qualifications why I’m should be called CEO and you should be called CFO. Right. But these are the closest things. And also businesses are expected to have somebody. I look at it as more like, Oh, this is the person who has the heavy responsibility, not like the glorious, like red carpet moments or whatever. It’s like payroll and liability and signing documents so that you have, you know, a follow through. You have to you have responsibility. That’s the way I look at it as the responsibility side. [00:19:59][43.3]

Rock Felder: [00:20:00] Yeah, they talk about that on the podcast and they were saying also, like what there’s few industries outside of tech where people refer to themselves as something other than what they do, for example, like a landscaper. Right? They’re technically an entrepreneur, but they just they don’t usually refer to themselves like that, right? So it’s it’s usually like these certain businesses that get applied this title of entrepreneur, but like, yeah, a plumber or something else, you don’t normally think of them and they don’t usually refer to themselves as as entrepreneurs, either. [00:20:33][32.7]

Zach Moreno: [00:20:33] I’ve talked to in the past about I. I’m a big fan of the Lex Fridman podcast, and he has the most recent episode. I’m I’m working my way through it because they’re so long. I’m looking at it right now. Two hundred and Twenty Six Minutes is this latest episode of Stephen Wolfram complexity in the fabric of reality. So this topic actually came up because Wolfram, as like a brand, is like multiple businesses. He’s a billionaire. It’s named after him, and he’s well documented for, like his ego. So take that for whatever it’s worth. But this actually came up in a past interview that that I listened to with him where it’s like, What do you call yourself? Do you call yourself like a computer scientist? Do you call yourself a physicist? You call yourself like, what is it? He says, I tell people I run a technology company and I’m a software engineer, but like many things, so I just say that I run a technology company and I’ve actually been like dabbling with that as the world has been opening back up and like, you know, inevitably these social conversations happen where it’s like, Well, what do you do and what do you do? And I kind of would prefer that that isn’t kind of how people communicate with each other in these situations, but it is what it is I’ve been kind of dabbling with. I run a technology company. Yea. So it’s also a really good episode, by the way. They think that they’ve figured out a fundamental fundamental theory of physics that unifies like quantum mechanics with general relativity and kind of figuring out the relationship of gravity there. This is something that is interesting to me to to put me to sleep at night, but it’s too really smart people. [00:22:09][96.0]

Rock Felder: [00:22:10] Nice. Yeah. Well, that’s what I’m listening to. Yeah, I don’t know what I’m going to be listening to next, to be honest. We’ll see whatever I see scrolling. And if I see an interesting title, I’m kind of in. I’m looking for new stuff I think is where where I’m at now. I’m bored with the stuff that I’ve usually been listening to. Like, there’s only so much you can listen to about stocks and crypto and stuff. I mean, sure, it’s never ending, but it’s just at a certain point. It’s just like, OK, this is just noise. This is more entertainment than actually info. [00:22:37][26.6]

Zach Moreno: [00:22:39] The uh, Kara Swisher’s Recode interviews with Satya Nadella and Elon Musk were really good. I really enjoyed those interviews, and then I also have my side project podcast Crypto Art that’s been on pause. My co-host Lizzie had to step away for for some health reasons, so I’m trying to figure out how to keep that going. I do not want to pod fade it, and it’s a very, you know, interesting topic to the world and to me, so. Hit me up. If you’re listening to this and you’re interested in that, maybe maybe we can work out something as a co-host or collaborator to sneak that in there. Figure out a way to keep that going. That’s what we’re listening to, and that’s what we’re excited to listen to in the near future. Anything else you wanted to cover today, Rock? [00:23:18][39.3]

Rock Felder: [00:23:19] No, no, no. That was good, man. It’s good to catch up and talk about shows and stuff. I’ll definitely check out the one on Theranos. [00:23:25][5.9]

Zach Moreno: [00:23:27] Cool. Thanks for listening. [00:23:27][0.1]

Rock Felder: [00:23:31] Thanks for tuning in to this week’s episode of Between Two Mics. [00:23:33][2.7]

Zach Moreno: [00:23:34] We hope you enjoyed our conversation. If you learn something or are we intrigued you a bit, let us know on social media. [00:23:40][5.9]

Rock Felder: [00:23:41] You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn by searching for SquadCast fm. [00:23:46][4.8]

Zach Moreno: [00:23:48] And if you want to show the podcast Some Love, you can leave us a rating or review wherever it is you’re listening right now. [00:23:53][5.5]

Rock Felder: [00:23:54] This show is put together by us, Zach and Rock. It’s mixed and produced by Vince Moreno with help from Arielle Nissenblatt. Our logo is designed by Alex Whedbee. [00:24:03][9.3]

Zach Moreno: [00:24:04] Since we’re a podcast about podcasts, we want to shout out the brands and products that we trust. We’re recording using SquadCast dot fm, and here’s our current stack. For recording, we’re using ATR2100 mics, Apple AirPods Max headphones and focus right Scarlet 2i2 audio interfaces. [00:24:24][19.5]

Rock Felder: [00:24:26] We edit the show on Adobe Audition in our hosting site is simple cast. [00:24:28][2.5]

Zach Moreno: [00:24:29] That’s it for us this week. We’re back next week with more from between these mics. [00:24:29][0.0]