Feed drop time! We’re on a break from the show as we prepare for v5 of SquadCast and work on revamping the SquadCast podcast. So, we’re bringing you carefully curated feed drops from some of our favorite SquadCasters.

This week, meet Harry Duran, an advisor to SquadCast.fm. In this episode, Harry interviews Todd Brown.

From Harry’s website

Harry welcomes to the show podcaster and master marketer, Todd Brown. Todd Brown is the expert other experts go to when they need help with their own business. His list of coaching students, consulting clients, and subscribers reads like a Who’s Who of A-List Entrepreneurs. Todd is also the host of The Marketer’s Mind, a show where he and his team discuss the marketing topics that others are afraid to touch. In this episode, Harry and Todd discuss where Todd got his entrepreneurial spirit from, the importance he places on differentiating his business, and how he fostered a culture of keeping it real. Todd expounds on his wildly popular E5 Method and talks about his legacy and being authentic to yourself.

What Harry and Todd Covered

  • 06:30 – Harry and Todd talk about the value of education, having mentors and role models in your life, and growing up in the NY/NJ area
  • 20:42 – When the entrepreneurial bug bit
  • 24:30 – The origin of Todd’s company
  • 30:45 – How Todd differentiated his organization’s offerings
  • 33:19 – The E5 Method explained
  • 40:18 – The inspiration to launch The Marketer’s Mind podcast
  • 43:41 – Embracing criticism and telling it like it is
  • 47:05 – Keeping it real
  • 49:03 – Leaving a legacy by being authentically you
  • 52:42 – Something Todd has changed his mind about recently and the most misunderstood thing about him
  • 57:29 – Harry thanks Todd for joining the show and lets listeners know where they can connect with him

Also in this episode


  • Written and produced by Arielle Nissenblatt
  • Mixed and designed by Vince Moreno Jr.
  • Artwork and logos by Alex Whedbee
  • Hosted by Zach Moreno and Rock Felder

Episode Transcriptions

DANA GEFFNER: Behind every single thing you wear, eat, and use. There are countless untold stories. From Fair World Project, I’m Dana Geffner. And this is For a Better World where you’ll hear stories from farmers, workers, and activists that expose the hidden costs behind everything around us. In this series, we’ll trace ingredients back to the source, to unpack the process and meet some of the people involved. And we’ll dive into the individual actions that can help shape a better world for everyone. Find out more and subscribe at fairworldproject.org/podcast.


ZACHARIAH MORENO: Hey, Between Two Micers, Zach and Rock here, and welcome to the show. 

ROCKWELL FELDER: We’re currently on a break from the podcast, but while we’re away, we’re still dropping episodes from some of our favorite shows. 

ZACH: In a moment, we’ll hit play on one of those feed drops. We chose these podcast drops very carefully, and we hope you’ll stay tuned to enjoy them. 

ROCK: If you like what you hear, please make sure to search for their podcast and subscribe. 

ZACH: While we’re away from Between Two Mics, we’re working on getting v5 of Squadcast ready for all of you. We’re also working on revamping this podcast. If you have any suggestions or ideas, we’re very available on social media, just search for Squadcast FM on all platforms. 

ROCK: Thanks for tuning in and being a part of the Squadcast story. Enjoy this feed drop.


Hello, welcome to the show. And this week we’ve got another feed drop for you. And for this episode or highlighting the work of Harry Duran, founder of FullCast and the host of Podcast Junkies. Harry is also the founding advisor here at Squadcast. And in this feed drop of Podcast Junkies, Harry speaks with Todd Brown. Todd is the expert other experts go to when they need help with their own business. His list of coaching students, consulting clients, and subscribers reads like a who’s who of A-list entrepreneurs. Todd is also the host of the Marketer’s Mind, a show where he and his team discuss marketing topics that others are afraid to touch. Thanks for sending us this episode, Harry. Let’s get into it.


TODD BROWN: My department started to thrive and now my department was growing by leaps and bounds. Like we got to the point where we were doing millions of dollars a year in personal training in my department, and my department became the poster child for the entire company.


HARRY DURAN: Podcast Junkies episode 279. Welcome back. I’m your host, Harry Duran. If you are new to the show, welcome, welcome. Newcomers and veterans of the show, veteran superfans, it’s the one where we seek out interesting, interesting voices in podcasting, and we’ll get them to kick back their heels and talk about life, their shows, and anything else that’s on their mind. Or my mind for that matter. Last week, we had just had a conversation with Ponyboy Pol, he’s the host of Pol and Pals podcast. Pol and I connected after he reached out to me when I had launched the any podcast recommendations website. And we talked a little bit about that at the last episode. So make sure you check that out 278. This episode is brought to you by Focusrite. And specifically the Scarlet 2i2 sound card. One of my favorite go-to sound cards, something I use for each and every podcast recording. The 3G line is a go-to for all new podcasters. Find out more at podcastjunkies.com/focusrite. And the link will be in the show notes as well. This week, I got connected through an old friend of mine, Esther Kiss. Esther and I were in John Lee Dumas is Podcaster’s Paradise if I remember correctly. And fun fact, I remember doing a test call one time from a closet in New York, and I think Esther was available through Facebook, and she was able to test it out for me. So that’s early, early Podcast Junkies a trivia for, for anyone keeping score. And so, Esther connected Todd and I, and we ended up just really having a really, really fun time. Todd is an incredibly successful entrepreneur. He’s the expert other experts go to when they need help with their own business. And his list of coaching students, clients, and subscribers sorta read like a who’s who of entrepreneurs. You’ll surely recognize a lot of names from his website. He’s the host of the Marketer’s Mind show where he and his team discussed the marketing topics that others are afraid to touch. And in this episode, we figure out where he got his entrepreneurial spirit from. That’s a really good story. The importance he places on differentiating his business and how he had foster the culture of this mindset of keeping it real, which is an overused statement, I will acknowledge, but he’s as real as they get. And I love the fact that we are able to connect on so many different, fun topics, not even related to podcasting or business. He grew up in, in the Northeast like me. And so we did a little bit of a reminiscing about freestyle music and life growing up in the city, which was always fun. And really set the episode off on a high. Which you’ll hear shortly. We talk about his wildly popular E5 method. And a little bit about legacy and being authentic to yourself and really, really enjoy this conversation. Like I said, can’t wait to get into it with you. I do want to give a shout out to Dan Delgado. Dan was nice enough to write a new review for the show. He said Harry Duran has a generally warm and almost zen-like presence and works well with his guests who are podcasters from a wide variety of shows. Great interviews with a great host. Dan, thank you so much. It was nice to see your name there. I really appreciate the kind words. And if you’d like yours read out, don’t forget to head to ratethispodcast.com/podcast junkies, as you’ve just heard. I love to read these on future episodes. Also another reminder, if you are on the bleeding edge of tech and want to try it, one of the newest podcast apps that support direct podcaster support. Some of the more popular ones are Fountain and Breeze, and there’s a whole list of them at newpodcastapps.com. You’ll have heard me talk about this a little bit back and forth over the past couple of months, it’s pretty wild. I was actually able to download a file, and going back to August of 2021 by episode, I have now got a list of total Satoshis here. I’m looking, it’s not a lot, obviously, as I’m just getting started, but over 5,000. And interestingly enough, there is in that file, one actual review that I was able to find, and it says, uh, Hey Harry, I just finished listening to your episode with Jason, number 274. It was fantastic. It’s really cool to peer behind the scenes of how some of these huge podcasts work. I’d agree with him that it is slightly early, but for me, it’s been a game changer into how I run my show and the level of audience interaction has skyrocketed for me. It’s barely even about the Satoshis / Bitcoin, although that’s fun and appreciated. The cooler part is the enhanced features I can provide to the audience through these new tags, and a new method of communication that is opening up. Super exciting stuff. And that was from, this is the, the thing on Curiocaster. So it was, it was through Curiocaster. So, uh, I want to give a shout out to that listener who sent me 1,199 Satoshis and I’ll have to do the math on that, how many pennies that is, but it was just so amazing to see these 66 entries of people that have sent me Satoshis. Um, if you don’t know what I’m talking about, head on over to podcastindex.org, to learn all about how you can submit your show or shoot me an email. We’re going to keep the conversation going with Steve Jackson on an upcoming episode of Leading the Bleeding. So make sure you listen to that. Really just learning all this stuff out for myself, my partner and I, and also getting into a little bit of a crypto…Probably should have jumped on that bandwagon when I’d first heard about it, but, uh, oh, well. Like they say, it’s been an interesting world that we live in all these conversations about things like the metaverse, crypto and NFTs, just wild, wild, wild stuff. So, um, yeah. Cool to see that. So if you are on a podcast app that supports that, now would be a great time to submit a Boostagram. And essentially a Boostagram is a donation of crypto in the form of Satoshis, and a comment that I just read out from my fan on Curiocaster or another one of those apps that support direct payment. Okay. And after the push for the crypto, but I made a note to look up that file that I saved and keep track of that. And I’ll do more of reading those out on future episodes as well. So thanks for the support and it’s really exciting times. Make sure you stay to the end of the episode where I reveal this week’s retention hashtag. It’s going to be a fun one. And I think that’s enough. Let’s get into this great, great conversation with Todd. 

All right. So Todd Brown host of The Marketer’s Mind. Thank you for joining me on Podcast Junkies.

TODD:  I’m excited to be here, man. 

HARRY: So what’s the best thing that’s happened to you this week? 

TODD: The best thing that has happened to me this week, I would say, this is kind of a, I would say it’s really what my wife got to do. Which my wife went with my older daughter. So I’ve got two daughters. They’re 17 months apart. My older daughter is about 20. My younger daughter is 18 and a half. My older daughter coaches her old high school volleyball team. They had a tournament up in Orlando, Florida. So I’m in South Florida. And so my wife and older daughter went up to Orlando for that. And my younger daughter is in her first year of college in Tampa, Florida. And so she came over from Tampa to Orlando and spent the weekend with my wife and older daughter. And so seeing pictures of them together, uh, was amazing and just put a smile on my face. I know how much it means to my wife and certainly my older daughter getting to spend time with her younger sister. And so that I would have to say is, is the best thing that happened to me this week. 

HARRY: How long have you been married? 

TODD: I’ve been married about 20 years.

HARRY: What’s been the biggest surprise for you as your daughters have gotten older. And they’re now in their, in their college years and knowing what life was like when you were younger. And, uh, it was like for you at that age, what are the, some of the things that cross your mind in terms of how they’re, they’re making that transition into adulthood? 

TODD: into it? Well, I think probably the biggest surprise for me, as strange as this is going to sound is I remember as a kid looking at my dad, as, you know, the protector, the man, the guy that had all the answers, like looking at him as this, you know, this guy that I could go to with anything. And he had it all figured out, and he would protect me and care for me and all that. And it’s still to this very day, it’s crazy for me to think that I’m that person to my daughters like, I’m the dad now, I’m the, I’m the father. And yet in my mind, I still feel like that same old knucklehead kid that grew up in New Jersey. And I’m like, I think about my daughters and I’m like these poor kids, they look to me as the, as the north star and the guide. And so that’s been interesting for me to just, as I’ve gotten older. So I’m about to turn 50 and to just realize that, you know, while we gain experience and hopefully some wisdom as we get older, there are a lot of things that still remain. Like just whether it be insecurities or, you know, I like to refer to them as demons. Just they exist, at least for me, they’ve, they’ve existed. I think one other thing that I’ll mention is, you know, I think I’m a lot more cognizant of the dangers out there in the world. You know, like when I was younger, I wasn’t really scared of anything really. Like, you know, you felt, you know, like most kids, you feel invincible, you feel like, you know, no matter what happens, it’s all going to be a-okay. I did some crazy stupid things as a child. And I think about my kids doing some of those things, and it terrifies me. And, uh, and so, yeah, man, it’s been an interesting ride to say the least.

HARRY: What’s the craziest, stupidest thing you’ve done? 

TODD: So the craziest…Well, I was arrested when I was a teenager for, for vandalism. It was the only time that I was ever arrested in my life. And for vandalism, like, and like an idiot, you know, like, you know, I was, I think I was 15 or 16 years old, and a buddy of mine was a little bit older. And so he had a driver’s license, and he had a, uh, pickup truck, uh, excuse me, like a Bronco, one of the, like a, you know, a big Bronco truck. And me, him and another one of my buddies had these slingshots, these wrist rockets, and we basically just drove around and shot out windows on people’s cars. And I feel terrible to this day. It’s you know, like idiots, just not, not thinking of the consequences, the cost to people, the, the damage. And so that was probably one of the dumbest things that I’ve had that I’ve done. And I’ve done a lot of dumb things. 

HARRY: Yeah, we all are. So just for reference, I was born in 1970, so I just turned 51 3 days ago.

TODD: Well, happy birthday!

HARRY: Thank you. Thank you. So we’re definitely of the same generation, and I think about all the stupid things I did when I was younger as well. How important do you think at that age role models, mentors, things like that, to youth, probably more guys. Cause they tend to get into trouble more, but I think of myself, and I think if I had had mentors or I had someone I could get stuff that was different from my father, I might’ve made different decisions.

TODD: Yeah, I completely agree with you. I think that look, I think mentors are, excuse me, the right mentor can be incredibly valuable. I think even more so today than ever before, because you know, with social media, you know. Like when we were kids, you know, when we left school, we disconnected, we weren’t exposed to what the other kids were saying and, and whatnot. Today, you know, are the kids are connected 24/7. And so I think more so than ever before, Having a mentor, somebody that can kind of impart some wisdom and be real with you, call you out on when you’re doing things that you really shouldn’t be doing. I think that is enormously valuable. In fact, you know, I went to college, but I, first of all, I was a terrible student, terrible, terrible student. In high school, my entire goal was never to bring books home, like. Right. Like a total idiot. Like I was just like, I don’t want to carry books home. And so I used to think, you know, I used to think the smart kids were like the nerds, the nerdy kids, this was before nerd was cool. Right? Like today, nerdy is kind of cool. And so, and I remember my father, you know, he said to me, and my father was an entrepreneur, so he didn’t go to college or anything like that. He was like a street guy from the Bronx. My mother was born and raised in Brooklyn. He said to me, and I remember this, to this day. He said to me, Todd, one day, those cool kids, the kids that you think are the cool kids are going to be working for those nerds. Right. He said, you remember that. Right. And you know, and so I was a terrible student, barely graduated. I couldn’t get into any college. So I had to go to community school, took me three years to get a two year degree. And then I was finally able to transfer to a state school, Montclair State in Jersey, where it took me another three years to complete a four-year degree in nutrition. And today I believe, look, I think that there’s value in school. You know, there’s certainly value in school, but I think the real value in school is, and again, both of my kids are going to college. Both of my kids got, you know, pretty much, my one daughter got a, you know, like a full ride, you know, complete all of her stuff. My other daughter’s like 75%, something like that. Very, very smart kids. Great students, certainly didn’t get it from me. But I say that I think college is great when you’re going into a career where you need college, where if you want to be a doctor, an attorney. Where you need a degree in order to operate in the profession. But if you don’t, I think that there are a lot of other opportunities worthy of pursuing today. Me, personally, knowing that, you know, I became an entrepreneur almost 20 years ago. If I were to do things differently, I would have sought out the best…The person that I thought was the best in this industry or the industry that I was going in, and I would have volunteered to be an intern for a year with them. I would have just said, can I, I just want to follow you. I want to learn from you. I want to study you. I just want real-world experience. And I think that that would have been worth its weight in gold. And so all that is to say I’m a big believer in mentors.

HARRY: What was life growing up in Jersey like? 

TODD: So, I mean, you know, I was in a pretty typical, you know, average, average family. I was always very, for me, I’ll tell you the interesting thing that was always very small, like very tiny. I’m short now, I’m only five, like five, five, and I was always very, very small, very, very thin. So I was short, thin. And so I remember when I decided to wrestle, to try wrestling, and I was like 20 pounds below the lowest weight class. So while everybody else, all the other guys and all the other kids were weighing in their underwear, I was like weighing into my jacket. You know, like I was getting on the scale, weighing in in my jacket and I remember other, you know, the kids on the other teams were like laughing at me. And so I, I decided after that first year of wrestling that I was going to start weightlifting. And so my dad got me this, like these like sand weights, the old plastic sand weights at home. And I started weightlifting. And my body really responded to weightlifting. And so I put on, you know, a bunch of weight that first like nine months or whatever it was. And then I decided I’m going to just take the full year off and continue to weightlift to try to fill out. Well, my body continued to respond. And, and so I ended up moving away from wrestling, and I got into competitive bodybuilding. And so from the time that I was, you know, I would say maybe 18 to 24, 25, I was competing in bodybuilding contests and ended up, you know, reaching the national level before I, I was just done with it. But so a lot of my younger years in my early twenties, were really focused on bodybuilding. And so I wasn’t, you know, like I didn’t party, I didn’t drink. I did go out to clubs and stuff like that. But like, while everybody else was, you know, drinking and doing crazy stuff, I’m like pulling a yam out of my pocket and eating a yam when it’s time to eat and, and whatnot. And so, you know, so, and then I went from that into, you know, really, it was, it was a short time after that, when I stopped bodybuilding, that I got into my first business. And I think that I’ve, I’ve taken so many of those disciplines, so much of what it is that I learned and had to exhibit in the world of bodybuilding, into the entrepreneurial space. And so, yeah, so I’m, I’m the, you know, the typical, for lack of a better phrase, meathead from the Jersey Shore. So when I see like the Jersey Shore show and my kids and everything, they’re like, oh my gosh, those are yours…I’m like, I was doing that long before they were doing that. Like where they were we were like long time ago. Not that I’m proud of that necessarily, but nevertheless. 

HARRY: What was it, what are the spots on the shore? Belmar..

TODD: Exactly. Belmar, Seaside Heights, Point Pleasant. Seaside Heights was where, you know, a lot of mischief, a lot of shenanigans. But we were down there probably every weekend. And then as I got a little bit older, we started to go into Manhattan to some of the crazy clubs, and Hoboken in Jersey. And yeah, it was, uh, you know, I look back and it makes me smile and chuckle, but at the same time, I’m like, man, what a knucklehead? 

HARRY: [laughs] So I grew up in Yonkers, so you’re giving me all the flashbacks, and I grew up DJing. So like vinyl and turntables. So I was big time.

TODD: Yeah. So I, I DJ’ed also, so you had the, the techniques, the two, like the right, like wow. 

HARRY: Got them out of storage. Yeah.

TODD: Milk, milk crates with all the, all the records and yeah, I know exactly, man. That’s so funny. 

HARRY: What genre were you playing? 

TODD: Like house music, club, you know? And so, yeah. And so, yeah. In fact talking about freestyle, so my wife and I maybe, I don’t know, right before COVID, went to like a concert at the, uh, I think we were at the Hard Rock down here in South Florida for like a freestyle, you know, like extravaganza, like Rob Base came in, you know, like all, you know, like everybody’s all old now and whatnot, and everybody in the room, you know. Everybody in the, at the concert is like, you know, is like our age, you know, but it was great, man. It was like a lot of fallen, you know, all the old, you know, it was really good. It was really cool.

HARRY: Yeah. There’s a friend of mine who is in the podcast and Ensee Neil Gallardo and he’s friends, I think, with some of the folks. And I’m sure a lot of people listening may not even recognize some of these names, but like Johnny O and Cynthia. People who are like at the top of the–

TODD: Johnny O was there. Yeah. Like it was packed. It was an amazing, like, it was, I saw this lineup and I said to my wife, I’m like, we got to go to this thing. Like, and my wife loves that. You know, like, love, love, love freestyle. And so it’s funny, you know, it’s, it’s just, it’s, it’s funny how things have changed even just music today is so different. And, yeah, it’s just funny, man. But I look back on that time in my life with a lot of, you know, a lot of fondness and, uh, yeah. Interesting.

HARRY: It’s really. Interesting to think, um, how generationally tastes change, because I do hear some of the new music and just even, I mean, I, we grew up in the era of like when hip hop was born, so like Run DMC and LL Cool J and it was just like Beastie Boys. And so I tend to gravitate and listen to that, and I hear some of the new stuff and I’m like, I don’t want to be that guy that says, like, I don’t get it, but sometimes I don’t get it.

TODD: Yeah. Oh, I’m totally with you. Like I tell my kids, I’m like, I don’t understand, you know, I get in the car with them. We put on, you know, I’m like, what is this? You know what I mean? Like, what do you think? What, what are we listening to here? And so I’m totally with you. I can very much relate. A lot of my, like, uh, my, I have a diverse music, taste in music, but a lot of my, my stuff on my playlist is old school, you know, Eric B and Rakeem and you know, really old stuff, but I love it. It’s still great. And I love it.

HARRY: Very cool. So you said your dad was an entrepreneur, so, and I know I’ve seen a little bit of your story about how you had the nine to five job, but I’m wondering when the entrepreneurial bug, specifically for you, took hold.

TODD: Yeah, I think I was always very entrepreneurial, even as a kid. I remember when I was in junior high, junior high school. So like, I think seventh grade, eighth grade, something like that. And I remember like, I would go to like CVS, you know, the drug store, buy these, you know, generic bags of candy, and then bring them to my locker and sell them piecemeal. You know, one at a time out of my locker, it was great, you know, like sell a lollipop like 25 cents or whatever. But the, the bags were so cheap that when you’re selling a lollipop for 25 cents, it was great. And I remember then the, some teacher, they flagged me, and they were like, you can’t do that anymore. And then when I was a little bit older, I was detailing cars. And so like we would buddy of mine, and I, we would detail, you know, we would detail cars. We would take the money that we made from detailing the cars, we’d go out and get Chinese food, like, you know, for lunch or whatever. Um, and so even before I…had worked, the job that I had out of college was, was working for a company that owned health clubs in New Jersey. And even right before I did that, I had a, like a nutritional practice. Cause that’s what I had gone to school for, clinical nutrition. And so I got, you know, I had a logo made, and I had this little office and blah, blah, blah. And so I was always very entrepreneurial. I think, more than anything, what I would probably say is, I just, you know, I always wanted to make money, and so I was willing to hustle to make money. I wasn’t necessarily thinking, I want to start a business. I want to, you know, have a team. Like I wasn’t that sophisticated early on, but I was always very entrepreneurial, always looking for ways that I could turn an idea into, into money. And even when I started my first online business, uh, which when I started my first online business, even though I, I formed a, you know, an entity like a separate entity, you know, like an S-corp and, uh, you know, bank account and all that. My objective really wasn’t to build this huge thing. It was just to generate like an extra thousand bucks a week. Back then I was like, Hey, I could generate an extra thousand bucks a week. That’s amazing. Like, you know, I was like, you know, I’m down, you know, like that’s fun money. And then it just, it turned into something more, and it continued to grow and evolve and that’s when I started to ask my dad, you know, I started to say like, when do you know, it’s time to leave your full-time job and go into your own business? Like when is the right time? And I was struggling with that, you know, I was hoping that he would give me a very direct and specific answer, like when you reach this amount of money or when you have this amount of customers, but he didn’t say that. He just said to me, you know, you’ll know in your heart. And then I was like, that’s it, that’s the answer you’re giving me, like, that’s all I have to go on? Like? And he said you’ll you’ll know. Uh, and so there came a point where my parents had moved from New Jersey to Florida. My wife’s parents unfortunately, had both passed away, and now we had two, you know, infants at home or two toddlers at home. Like I said, excuse me, 17 months apart. And my wife was like, what are we doing in New Jersey? Like, we’ve got no family here. Let’s go down to, you know, let’s go down to Florida. And then I was like, let’s do it. Time is right. This is the, you know, the opportunity is there. I was terrified. And you know, I had a lot of anxiety over that, but I, you know, the time was right.

HARRY: And so what were some of the businesses that you started, and how did you start to formulate what would eventually become like the business you have now? 

TODD: Yeah, so I was working at the time for a, as I mentioned, a company that owned several health clubs in New Jersey. I came aboard with this company when they had one health club in New Jersey, and all of their clubs were upscale were like 40,000 square feet, beautiful architecture inside. They were unique in the world of health clubs back then, where everything was typically like, you know, a vanilla box, you know, like a rectangle with just equipment in there. They had beautiful architecture and whatnot. And then they added a second location, and a third location, and a fourth location, and a fifth location. And then I was promoted, you know, over the, over the course of time. And I got to a point where I was promoted into this role where I was now responsible for the personal training department in this company, and ultimately responsible for generating revenue through this personal training department. And it was at some point I got a direct mail piece, in the mail, an oversized postcard, yellow postcard, loaded with copy, you know, like direct response, copy, headline, and bullets and all that. And it was offering a home study program on how to sell fitness, how to grow a fitness business, sell a fitness business. I had never seen anything like that before. It was my first exposure to, you know, to direct response marketing, to long form copy, to the idea of a home study program, that sort of thing. And I remember I went to my boss and I said, Hey, can I expense this? It’s like 350 bucks. He said, yeah, roll with it. I got the home study course. It was to show you how long ago this was, right. It was cassette tapes. And there was a hard diskette, like in there. Binders, you know, like big binders. This was prior, you know, there-video wasn’t really online yet. Like, you know, anything. And I learned, you know, I studied the system. I even called the creator and was like, who did you learn from? And then I started studying those, those folks. And then I was implementing everything. And some things didn’t apply. We had to tweak things and blah, blah, blah. And long story, real short over time, my department started to thrive, and now my department was growing by leaps and bounds. Like we got to the point where we were doing millions of dollars a year in personal training in my department, and my department became the poster child for the entire company. And it was right around, like when we were, I was on top of that, I was like, Hey, you know what? I’d love to share with other folks outside of the fitness industry, what it is that I learned, the tweaks that we made, what it is that we were doing inside these clubs. And so that’s when I decided that I was going to share that with massage therapists. And so I decided on massage therapists. Number one, I didn’t want to do anything with fitness because I felt like it would be a conflict of interest with my employer. I also felt like, Hey, this dude is already doing it. And he’s the pro. And so we worked with massage therapists in our health clubs. So I created a business to help massage therapists to market and grow their practices. And that was the first business that really, that was my first business, like real online business. That was the business that took off, over time. And then I started working with chiropractors, and so I took all the stuff that I had done for massage therapists. And then I converted it over to chiropractors and a chiropractic office. Right. And there were some tweaks and changes that had to be made, but most of the stuff done for massage therapists applied to chiropractors. And then I started teaching chiropractors, and then I created a software application to automate it for them. And all that. And then we ended up rolling out into other niches, like martial arts schools and dentists and whatnot. And then that led to, all those kinds of businesses, led to me sharing with the general entrepreneurial audience, what we were doing to get such good response to our own marketing. And so right. I was invited on like a teleseminar, I think it was on the phone before webinars to share how we were getting like $24 a lead in these marketing campaigns. And that was the beginning of-The response that I got to that teleseminar was, was just incredible. I remember in fact that at the end of the time, I’m sharing now what we’re doing to get what we’re doing to generate on average $24 for every lead that comes into our campaign. And so I have nothing to sell. Right? I’m talking, I’m doing this for a friend who owns this teleseminar service that he provides to entrepreneurs, online entrepreneurs. And I get on there. I share with them this whole spiel for 90 minutes. And at the end, I’ve got nothing to sell. And so I’m like, all right. You know, see you guys, best of luck everybody, take care, hang up. And now I’m chilling. Like, wow, that was a great teleseminar 20 minutes later, my buddy’s partner texts me, and he says something like, you know, people are pissed. And I’m like, oh my gosh, like, what did, um, I’m trying to think, like, did I say anything? Did I like, like, did I, you know? Um, and he go, I said, what do they, what, like, what do you mean? What are they mad about? They’re mad that you didn’t have something else to offer them. And I’m like, of all times of all times, right? The one time I have nothing to off-right. Which is never, it never happened to me before that, and it has never happened to me since. And then I was like, all right, there’s definitely tremendous interest here, tremendous demand here. And so I took a couple of months to create a full-blown program to teach people exactly how to do what I was doing. And then we went back, did a second teleseminar offered that coaching program, sold it out before the end of the teleseminar. And that was the beginning of the main company that I have today.

HARRY: Fantastic story. Thank you for sharing that. What do you think it was that people heard on that seminar that really got them interested in learning more, in learning the bones behind it? What do you think you were offering or talking about that was probably different than, than something you may have heard before? 

TODD: Yeah, I think you just said it. And that’s something that I still talk about with our clients and students to this very day, that it was different from anything that they had heard before. So there was a depth to the, to the knowledge, to the process being shared, right? I was talking about, you know, a level deeper than what it is that they had heard before from other, you know, experts, trainers, guides, whatever you want to call it. And so there was a deeper level of understanding being demonstrated and being communicated. And I think that as always, you know, in, in every market, you know, different gets attention. Right. Like better. Doesn’t always get attention. Different gets attention. The, one of the first things that people want to know when they come across a solution, right? And no matter what people buy, they’re looking for a solution. They’re looking to solve a problem. Whether that problem is a pain point that they want to get rid of, or whether that problem is an unfulfilled need or desire. People are ultimately investing in products and services to solve a problem. They’re ultimately investing in products and services for an outcome. Well, one of the very first things that people want to know is what’s different about this compared to everything else that I’ve done heard, seen, tried, used in the past? And people, you know, they don’t pay attention the same way to more of the same. What people pay attention to is different. And then they’re going to see if, is this difference worthy of me like learning more about? Is this difference going to make a true difference in my results and outcome? And so I think that that was just the biggest thing. I was willing to, and excited about the deeper strategies, the deeper principles. I was really excited about not just giving people the fish, but teaching them how to fish so that they understood truly why certain marketing components work and in what context they work and what we’re ultimately doing, rather than at that time, most-the overwhelming majority of people were just very superficial. Like set up a marketing campaign and start with this page and then go to this page, and they weren’t giving the nuance. They weren’t giving the, the deeper principles that have to be there for it to be effective. And that, and I was.

HARRY: So obviously a podcast interview is not enough time to go deep into the heart of the system, but at a high level, and we’ll have links at the end of the show for people to learn more, but Todd, can you explain just the high level bullet points about what makes this successful for folks that implemented and just an overview of the system? And are you referring to E5? Is that now what’s become the E5 system?

TODD: Yes. So, you know, so I’ll give you a little context and then I’m going to give you the high level view. And if you want me to go deeper into anything, I’m down to, and hopefully this high level view is good enough to give people some insight. But, you know, people ask me all the time, you know, how did you develop this system? And I was very fortunate in that early in my career as an entrepreneur and ultimately in the world of direct response, unlike the majority of other experts out there, and there are a lot of great experts, very knowledgeable, very talented, good people that care out there. One of the things that, main things that sets me apart is that I had one foot in the traditional online marketing world. And so I got to see the best of the best from the online marketing world. But at the same time, I had one foot in the monster direct response publishing world. And so I got to work with companies like Agora, $1.5 billion a year company, you know, a monster in a monster universe. And the way that they operated was very different from the way that the traditional online marketing world operated. And so ultimately there was some great stuff happening in the online marketing world. And there were some things that they were missing and lacking. And then over here, believe it or not in the big boys, there was some stuff that they were doing that was just exceptional, but there was also stuff that they were missing. And so it’s interesting because really, if you really boil it down, I just brought the best of the online world to them. And I brought the best of what they’re doing to the online marketing world, and both parties were blown away. And so ultimately what I did was I took the best of the best. And I brought them together into a single method that I was using to grow my own companies. That method is today referred to as the E5 method. E5, it’s a five stage method, and I’m going to focus on only one of the stages for right now, which is what most people are likely interested in. And that is the engineering stage. The engineering stage of E5 is where we actually put together a marketing campaign. And what makes an E5 campaign very different from the typical, you know, marketing message or sales message out there is that number one, recognizing that there’s a difference between marketing and selling. Marketing and selling are not the same activities. They do not have the same objective, right. Selling is what you do when you’re talking to, or communicating with a prospect that already knows the type of product they want. And now they want to know why yours compared to everybody else’s. So when you’re talking about your product, your features, your advantages, your benefits, the offer, the price point, all that, that’s selling, but marketing, the job of marketing as defined by Peter Drucker. One of the greatest management gurus ever, the job of marketing is really to make selling superfluous, to make selling unnecessary, meaning to make selling just a natural extension, like a, you know, in the E5 world, the selling portion is really just where we present the offer. We present the offer for the product or service. The heart and soul of marketing is ultimately when you turn a prospect’s desire for a result, for an outcome, for a change, for a transformation, you turn that desire into demand for your product or service before you ever even talk about your product or service. And an E5 campaign does that through, let me see how I can simplify this, through what it ultimately does is it identifies the unique mechanism behind how your product or service works. So there’s a way in which your product or service works to deliver that result, to deliver that outcome. Right? If you sell a supplement, there’s a reason, whether it’s the formula, it’s the unique combination of nutrients. If you sell a piece of software that gets people top Google rankings, maybe it’s the algorithm behind the software. If you work with people to help repair their relationships, there’s a, a methodology, a process, a system that you use to repair that relationship. So we start off by identifying what is the unique mechanism behind how your product is able to deliver the result, and then ultimately what we’re doing. We are putting together an education-based marketing message that shows people, we have a, a different and superior way to give you the result that you want. Right. We introduce the unique mechanism and then we educate the prospect on what makes the unique mechanism, not only different from every other option out there, but what makes it superior in terms of delivering that result. And so through education, we’re able to lead the prospect to say, yeah, I get it. I see it, that, I want that mechanism. I want that method. Like, that’s the process I want to use then. And then, only then, after we’ve led the prospect to that point, do we then introduce the offer for the product, which is how they actually reap the benefits of the mechanism. So it’s very different from the typical approach of like, it’s not, we’re not selling, we’re not just, you know, we’re not just going benefit, benefit, benefit, benefit, benefit, which is what prospects expect you to do. We’re educating, delivering value, and we’re demonstrating that we’ve got something different and superior compared to everything else available for you, Mrs. Prospect, to enjoy the result that you want. That’s the heart and soul of the E5 method.

HARRY: It sounds very interesting. And what are the other four points? 

TODD: Yeah, the examine stage, which is just basically another way of saying research. We examine the prospects, competitors, and the product there is then there’s the engineering stage based on what it is that we uncover during the examination stage, where engineering. Then we teach folks how to engineer a minimum viable funnel. And so this is, how do you save time and money when testing a new marketing campaign? So the third stage is the evaluation stage where we take that minimum viable campaign and we roll it out to prove that we’ve got a, a winning campaign. After the evaluation stage, we then go into the enhancing stage. The enhancing stage is where we turn that minimum viable campaign into a full blown campaign and really ultimately, optimize it for scale, meaning optimize it so that we can now take it to cold traffic, to paid traffic if we want and scale it, you know, out the wazoo. So in the enhancing stage, we’re preparing the campaign for scale. And then the fifth and final stage is the expanding stage, and that’s where we are expanding the audience. And so we’re expanding the, the volume of people that were driving into the campaign. 

HARRY: Very helpful. Thank you for sharing that. And we’ll have more information about how folks and learn about that in the show notes as well. So shifting gears slightly, I want to touch a little bit about the, The Marketers Mind podcast. And you started it, it looks like the first episode was, was way back in February of 2016. And there’s, there’s been some stops and starts. And so I’m curious now, do you remember, like when podcasting came on your radar?

TODD: I don’t remember when podcasting came on my radar, you know, I’ve always been a fan of podcasting because like I enjoy teaching. I enjoy training. I obviously enjoy talking, um, which sometimes gets me in trouble. And so I’ve always like, I think that I love podcasting. I wish I didn’t stop, to be honest with you. And I wish that what I should say is not wish, but we will be restarting a show. You know, I’m the typical, even after all these years, almost two decades, you know, as an entrepreneur, I’m very much like the typical entrepreneur in that I get bored easily. And so, uh, which is not a good thing, when it comes to valuable communication channels like podcasting. But that’s really, there’s no excuse, really. I just got, you know, I just got bored and I moved on to the, to the next thing that caught my attention. Today, I’m a little bit more mature in, you know, in I’m a little bit more mature, and a little bit more self-aware in that I’m able to spot when I’m getting bored, and I know what’s coming next. And I know that the internal dialogue is going to say, ah, stop doing that, do this. And, but, uh, yeah. I dunno if I answered the question or not. 

HARRY: No. Yeah. I’m just curious. And I think for most of the episodes you had a solo format, so you were teaching content that was relevant to you. I don’t know if you were able to interview anyone on the podcast or was it all solo episodes?

TODD: I do not believe that I interviewed anybody. I’ve always been a fan of, you know, I think that there are so many podcasts out there where, where they do interviews, and that I just was never interested in doing that. Not because, you know, there’s a lot of smart people out there and a lot of, uh, you know. But I think that if I was to do an interview-style podcast, like, I love that, you know, you asked some really great questions that nobody’s ever asked me before, you got personal. I would want to ask the stuff that nobody else talks about. Right. I don’t want to ask the same old questions, like, you know, the same standard questions. I would want to, you know, like, let’s get real, let’s get raw. Let’s just get down and dirty. Let’s talk about some demons, and let’s talk about the da-you know, the, the ugly, the, the beat up stuff, the stuff that nobody, nobody talks about. And so I just never really did that because I, I knew. You know, it’s, it’s an interesting thing, man, for what it’s worth that, you know, there are a lot of, you know, experts or gurus, whatever you want to call, that are very much about. I want to come off smart. I want to come off looking like, you know, I’m a genius. I don’t want to say anything negative. I want to be on point. And I was just never interested in, like, I didn’t want to be part of that. I didn’t want to be like, I was never interested in that. I want to, you know, and so for me, I just felt like, let me just get on there and roll with it, say whatever, you know, and whatever I want to say, I’m going to say. Good, bad, you know, cause controversy or not, like I’m just going to roll with it. And so that’s why I tended to, you know, I didn’t do an interview style.

HARRY: Yeah, I think I get the vibe. It’s sort of like a Northeast vibe. I just like shoot straight from the hip. Have thick skin. Like don’t take things personally. And sometimes, you know, I’m living in the Midwest now, so that’s tends to rub people the wrong way. And maybe even in Florida, too, I don’t know about what your experience has been. So it’s been interesting. Like sometimes, you know, you just are used to being in, you know, in New Jersey, in New York, and you know, you just gotta, you gotta roll with the punches sometimes and you’ve got, you know, just say what’s on your mind, but also have thick skin because people are gonna do the same thing to you too. So I’m wondering how that’s translated for you.

TODD: I, I mean, look, I think I would agree with you. I think, you know, I think most people, you know, I think there are a lot of, and I don’t say this, this is going to sound terrible, but it’s just, there are a lot of people that are very fragile. You know, in their, like their, whether it’s, you know, their ego is very fragile, and I don’t know, I just, you know, I’m not, that’s never, that’s not me. Certainly, as I’ve gotten older, I’ve gotten a lot more comfortable with, with criticism. You know,, and I’m not afraid of saying something that, you know, pisses somebody off. I, you know, I don’t do it intentionally, and I don’t want to hurt anybody, and I don’t want to spread division or anything like that. But at the same time, I’m going to be true to what it is that I believe and feel. And oftentimes I personally believe, especially in the entrepreneurial world, the business development world, that a lot of stuff is sugarcoated. And it’s, you know, it’s painted to look a certain way. It’s got a nice veneer, and that’s doing people a disservice, you know, because when they come face to face with an obstacle, a problem, and all they’ve heard is the great stuff. They feel like I must be doing something wrong. Cause I’m the only one that’s dealing with all these, these problems, or I’m the only one that’s dealing with all of these insecurities, Hey, these experts just seem to have success after success, after success, after success. But if they only knew that, you know, that, you know, we all have issues within the business, those issues may change. Right. They evolve over time, different issues, bigger issues, you know, but, and so that’s why I’ve always just, you know, I’ve always just been a fan of, I’m just going to say it like it is, man. I’m not here to, you know. When I teach, when I coach, when I, I always tell people in advance, I always say, look, I’m going to treat your business like, it’s my own, like my money, reputation, and livelihood is on the line. And so I’m not going to tell you the things that you want to hear. I’m going to tell you the things that you need to hear. Sometimes it’s going to be painful for you to hear it. Sometimes it’s going to be painful for me to say it, but you can always be assured that I’m going to say exactly what it is that I believe and feel. And I’ve tried to stick with that. My entire career.

HARRY: Yeah, that’s helpful. And that comes through and I remind the listeners and we work with clients because we have a podcast production agency. So I work with clients, and I tell them, there’s always three people in the conversation. There’s the host, the guest, but the listener too. And I always want it to feel like you and I having a conversation in a bar and someone just pulled up a stool and just like, is listening to the conversation, engaging and be like, oh yeah, ask that followup question. Or like, you know, he told that story about getting arrested. Like, what is that about? So that’s why when I see those threads, I try to be like actively listening, be intently curious about people, because I say it all the time, every single person you meet has got a story. Like if you just take the time, invest the time in learning what makes them tick, how they got to where they got to. If you’re curious and you care, you’ll get a story out of everyone because we all got so many different paths that have got us to where we are now. And, um, and those are fascinating stories, and inspiring stories that people need to hear.

TODD: Yeah, well said, man, I think that we all, you know, I think, you know, we all are on our own journey, and we all deal with, you know, issues, and insecurities, and fears. We all are, you know, have weird desires that sometimes we don’t share publicly and, and whatnot. And I think that the more that, you know, especially when you’re, when you are leading people in whatever capacity, as a coach, as a guide, as an expert. I just, I’m a big believer in the fact that you need to connect with people and authenticity and showing the warts and all like, right. You know, like I’m not looking to whitewash anything. I’m just looking to keep it real so that hopefully somebody could, somebody out there says, well, if Todd could do it, I was never arrested. And so he’s worse, you know, he started worse than I did. And so maybe I could do it and that’s really, you know, my aim, you know. The answer of, you know, what’s the one thing that you’re most embarrassed about, let’s say, right. And somebody says, ah, that I’m such a perfectionist. Right. I just have to do everything perfectly. I’m like get the freak out of here with that man. Right? Like that’s the thing you’re most- stop the nonsense. Stop it. Right. That’s nonsense. Stop it. Just stop right now. ‘Cause you’re not fooling anyone really.

HARRY: That’s an interesting thing too.

TODD: Yeah. It’s just like-I don’t even know the word. There’s no word coming to my mind. It’s just, I just don’t. I hate it because it’s just 

HARRY: Inauthentic, fake.

TODD: It’s just, it’s not, it’s not right. It’s not fair to the people that you’re talking to that, you know, like, look, man, like keep it real. It’s funny because that’s one of our company values, in our main company is we always keep it real. And so, right. It’s not like when we have to have a tough conversation, we’re just going to keep it real. I’m not going to sugarcoat anything. Right. You know, we’re going to keep it real. Cause that’s who I am as an individual. And it’s what I believe people deserve. 

HARRY: That’s well said. So as you enter the, probably what I call them, personally, the second half of my life, you know, hitting that 50 mark is pretty interesting. ‘Cause when you start to look back, you tend to look at things from the perspective of having gained wisdom. You know, you fall down enough, you make enough mistakes. I’ve, I’ve definitely got my share of mistakes that I’ll share when I’m on the other side of the mic. But I think learning the lessons from them, I think has been really important for me. And I’m just wondering if you start to think about things like legacy or what type of impact you want to leave. And obviously having two daughters, I’m sure that’s top of mind for you.

TODD: I mean, look, I think, you know, I’m entering, you know, I agree with you. Like, I, it’s funny how it really is funny how, as we get older things that we used to care about that were like so important to us, are no longer, you know, important. There are things that I see today and believe today that I wish I knew or believed when I was younger. Like, you know, that I’ve said to my daughters, right? Like for example, one thing is, you know, do you. Be you. Don’t, you know, there’s no need to try to please others or to try to fit in. Live a life of authenticity, you know, because there were many years where, you know, like I was afraid that if I said something at a social gathering that I’d be looked at as, maybe he’s not so smart, or he’s not refined, or whatever it may be. And so, right. You’re ultimately walking around in this mask, you know, and that’s, there’s a weight to that. Like, you gotta be a certain way to fit in and to be, to get approval and whatnot. And so, you know, that’s something that I wish I really embraced and, and, uh, really truly embraced when I was a lot younger. I didn’t realize that or accept that or come to that conclusion until I was until I was older. And I think that, so, you know, live a life of authenticity, be who you are. Be you. You do, you live your life. Well, how you want to dress a certain way, do your thing. Don’t try to fit in, right? If you’ve got an opinion, a feeling, be you. And let that authentic you, that real you shine through and shine through always. The people that don’t appreciate that, so be it, right. There are people out there that will appreciate you for who you are and what you bring to the table, like your true self and never, never hide that. So that’s one thing. The other thing, I think that, you know, I, as I’ve gotten older, I’ve really come to appreciate enriching others. And what I mean by that is just, you know, like, is, I would say is as corny as this may sound, cause this was not always the case for me, but sometimes I, I wonder like if god forbid something were to happen to me tomorrow, did I really impact people? Like, did I really impact like in a bigger way than just, did I help people make money? Like, like, did I truly impact people? Did you know, are people going to think back, you know, to my life is different today because of something Todd did, or something Todd said, or something Todd gave, or participated in. And so I, I think about that often, and I don’t have the answer. I don’t know, you know, I haven’t come to. But I believe that in this next phase of my life, I think there will be more of my energy, focus, and time put into really enriching others as much as I can.

HARRY: That’s very well said. Thank you. A couple of questions as we wrap up, what’s something you’ve changed your mind about recently?

TODD: What is something I’ve changed my mind about? So I’ll get political for a second. So the vaccine. I got vaccinated, I wasn’t vaccinated for a very long time. And then I got vaccinated. And I’ll just share that I’ve got friends on both sides of the equation, and I love them all. You know, I’m just a big believer in again, you do you, man, you don’t have to explain to me like there’s no, I don’t, you know, there’s no judgment from me. But that that’s probably the biggest one.

HARRY: Yeah, it’s an interesting one. Cause I may be in the same boat because I held out for a long time, and it got to the point where I felt like I couldn’t function in the world without this. And I was starting to think like, oh, I can’t travel here or can’t go in this restaur-. And I’m just like, I almost wanted to just get it out of the way. Just…So in a perfect world, people wouldn’t ask me, and it be none of their business, what I decided to do or not do, but it’s been a strange experience to see what’s happened and how people have had judgments either way. And to your point, I think just respect people’s decision, period. Let them do what they feel is the right choice for themselves. And, you know, and then not judge people. So it, everything happens for a reason. And when there’s a lot of things that are coming out of COVID, and this was something I think no one, no one expected that kind of, we all thought we were going to be on the same page for the vaccines, but it’s been funny how, a little thing like that can trigger these crazy reactions and these crazy conversations. It’s been wild to see and fascinating to just observe.

TODD: Yeah, I’m very much in the same boat. Like I think that was probably a very similar train of thought that led to me finally going in and getting the thing. You know, I think you’re right. It’s, it’s baffling to me. Some of the things, you know, on both sides, like it’s baffling to me, some of the stances and perspective that, you know, that people have. There has been some crazy, like just crazy thoughts and ideas and whatnot, but, but, you know, I just, I respect the fact that like, look, everybody’s got a different worldview. Everybody processes information through a different set of experiences and culture and upbringing. And so, you know, somebody feels, you know, somebody feels one way, somebody feels a completely opposite way. Who am I to say, you know, that’s how they’ve processed the information. I might not agree with it. I might not like the way that they’re expressing it, but god bless. You do you, man, that’s what you want. Do you. So I never wanted to be this source of the source of division, right? So like I never want, I, if anything, like, I want to try to bring people together. I want to try to leave like people feeling good after an interaction with me. And so I’ve always felt for me personally and every now and then I’ve slipped up. I think I slipped up twice in the last like year and a half with something that I’ve posted on social media, but I try to like leave that. And try to stay positive, uh, cause it’s, it’s nuts. It’s nuts out there.

HARRY: It’s definitely nuts out there now. What’s the most misunderstood thing about you?

TODD: The most misunderstood thing about me, I would have to say that I come across asm  a lot of people refer to me as, you know, like a marketing genius or whatnot. And, uh, I would say that, that’s so not the truth. That the reality is I’ve just been a student of the game for so long. I’ve tried so much that I, I believe that this is a learnable skill, and I think just like any other skill, if you study it long enough, if you do enough of it and learn from your mistakes, you will develop a level of expertise that far outweighs the general public. And that’s, you know, that’s what I’ve done. The bookshelf behind me is, you know, is testament to that.

HARRY: Yeah. And there’s so much, so many threads to pull and roads to go down as we wrap up. Uh, probably could fill up another interview for the benefit of the listener, there is a full bookshelf behind you. So there’s questions about which has been some of your favorite books, but it’s, it’s, it’s a great testament.

TODD: Well, save that for, the thing that I will point out for the listeners is people always ask me, so there’s monster bookshelf. You can’t see it. It runs off the, and there’s a, a ladder and people always say you have a ladder! And I always tell them, I say that ladder is much more about my lack of height than it is the height of the bookshelf. And so that believe me, don’t be like, that has a lot more to do my 5’5 build than it does with anything.

HARRY: That’s fun. Yeah. I took a quick snapshot and I’ll, I’ll share that on socials to just so people get a shot of that. But, uh, but Todd, this has been really, really fun conversation. The hour flew by. I do feel better as a result of having had this conversation with you. So thank you for bringing high energy to this conversation and sharing your story. We had a lot of common paths in terms of our background, so that was fun. And I appreciate you being open and vulnerable and sharing some of the bumps along the way. And I know that the listeners are going to appreciate it.

TODD: Well, you amazing, man. And I don’t say that lightly. I do a lot of these podcasts, and you were awesome. It was a lot of fun. And you, you brought back some, you know, talking about the freestyle and Djing and whatnot was really fun. And so I super appreciate your time, and I appreciate the questions that you had. I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to talk about some things that I normally don’t get to talk about. And so we’ll definitely have to do it again in the, uh, in the future. And so thank you so much.

HARRY: And if I’m ever in Florida, I’ll look you up, or, or we can meet up at an upcoming freestyle concert sometime. [laughs] 

TODD: You, there you go. Definitely. Whether you’re in Florida, you reach out, dinner on me. Or if there’s a freestyle concert, Rob Base, Johnny O. You and I, there. 

HARRY: That would be awesome. So if folks want to learn more about, learn more about you. What’s the best place, where’s the best place to send them?

TODD: They can go to, uh, toddbrown.me. And so just T O D D B R O w N dot M E. If you’re interested in learning more about the E5 method, you can get a copy of the, uh, E5 book at e5bundle.com. That’s the letter E, the numeral five, bundle.com. Or you can reach out to me on Facebook. Just Todd brown, and you’ll find me. 

HARRY: And shout out to Esther kissed who introduced us. Esther’s a longtime friend. She’s, uh, one of the first people I connected with as I started my podcast and journey way back in 2014.

TODD: Yeah, good peeps. Esther and I go back a number of years, and so good peeps. She is really when it comes to podcasts and connections and just, uh, all things related to this world. She’s, she’s good people.

HARRY: Thanks for your time, Todd. 

Thanks again to Todd for coming on the show, much appreciated. I think you can definitely feel the vibe and the energy of that conversation and how much fun I had, I was smiling at the end of it, which is a great feeling. It’s one of the best times in my day when I get to have these conversations. And again, shout out to Esther Kiss for making that connection. Full show notes available at podcastjunkies.com/ 279. Intro/outro music composed by Cedar & soil, cedarsoil.com for his list of amazing, amazing music. Don’t forget to check out our sponsor Focusrite and their awesome line of gear, specifically the Scarlett 2i2 pro, one of my favorites. Check out the full lineup at podcastjunkies.com/focusrite. If you made it this far, you know, not looking for this week’s retention hashtag, but before I do that, make sure you check out next week’s episode and it’s with Anna Ferminoff. Okay. Let’s do the hashtag, tag me podcasts_junkies and Todd Brown @ Todd Brown, T O D D B R O W N. And let’s go with hashtag freestyle Todd. [laughs] And that’s a shout out to the freestyle music we talked about at the beginning of the show, freestyle time, two Ds. That’s the retention hashtag. Thanks again for all you do to support the show. I truly appreciate you all. Have a fantastic day.